wouldnt it make sense to combine the unlimited class, and heavyweight.. you could fit more races in a day, or more practice sessions in the morning. the unlimited classes arent usually packed. and its not like all the manufacturers are making 750's any more. it would allow us unlimited guys more classes to run so we wouldnt be so limited (pun intended). i know i would spend more money on entry fees if there were more available races for me. im not a fan of waiting til the last race of the day on sunday just to run one more race.. now, i know its probably kept that way since so many 600 guys like to run heavyweight for more tracktime, but what about helping out the racers on liter bikes. there certainly are less of us so it wouldnt take as much to accomodate us. how about a pretty please. :)
buy a smaller bike. ;D
Quote... now, i know its probably kept that way since so many 600 guys like to run heavyweight for more tracktime, ... :)
Well...
I run my Middleweight against you guys... cuz I do better in Unlimted Classes then I do in MW class...
Those Middleweight guys are as fast, as they are nuts! :o
XIII
What "new" classes would you propose for the literbikes? We've already got a stock class, modified class, "mini-endurance" class and a purse class... just like HW, MW and LW.
QuoteWhat "new" classes would you propose for the literbikes? We've already got a stock class, modified class, "mini-endurance" class and a purse class... just like HW, MW and LW.
I think it would be cool if all weekends were twin sprint weekends....Leave the classes them same, just more races..
QuoteI think it would be cool if all weekends were twin sprint weekends....Leave the classes them same, just more races..
And all double points at that. That way if you miss one race you're screwed (cue evil laugh here) buawahahahahaha!!!!
I'm for it if they then allow 750's in MW :P
Quotebuy a smaller bike. ;D
i just sold my 600 to race the 1k.. its a different challenge and a lot of fun. :)
QuoteWhat "new" classes would you propose for the literbikes? We've already got a stock class, modified class, "mini-endurance" class and a purse class... just like HW, MW and LW.
well maybe not a new class, i was just throwing shit out really. but what i would really like is more practice sessions in the morning. this is something everyone would benefit from, and its certainly more tracktime for our money. we could easily have 3 or 4 practice sessions each morning, and they could be even longer too. it would give all of us working slobs who cant make friday practices a chance to work on set up a bit more, and get warmed up before the races.. plus, its just more tracktime for our money. gto is already combined, so just combine heavyweight and unlimited and bang! more tracktime for everyone.
If you guys want TWIN SPRINTS all the time; I'm going to start selling tires!!!! :D
They just added Unlimited Superbike this year.
QuoteIf you guys want TWIN SPRINTS all the time; I'm going to start selling tires!!!! :D
I think more Twin Sprints is a good idea..
Or, modify the Great Plains schedule so we are at MAM/Heartland Park more, and maybe even add Hallett to the list.
I live in Kansas City, and it is kinda crappy to have to drive 9 hours to blackhwak for only 4 races. :-/ I'll do it for sure, but it would be more fun and CCS would make more money in race fees.
Road America was cool, becuase it was a twin sprint so I got to do 7 races.
If nothing else, add Barber as a Twin Sprint...I think everyone in the MW and GP would like that!!!!
Just a thought... 8)
QuoteOr, modify the Great Plains schedule so we are at MAM/Heartland Park more, and maybe even add Hallett to the list.
I live in Kansas City, and it is kinda crappy to have to drive 9 hours to blackhwak for only 4 races. :-/ I'll do it for sure, but it would be more fun and CCS would make more money in race fees.
That's all a nice idea...
But considering that at one time there were many races at Heartland Park Topeka and the KC, Topeka, Wichita, Omaha, Des Moins, Tulsa area didn't come up with enough racers to pay for the event...
Having more races in that area still doesn't make sense. It's been tried.
Quotewouldnt it make sense to combine the unlimited class, and heavyweight.. you could fit more races in a day, or more practice sessions in the morning. the unlimited classes arent usually packed.
Am I the only one that read this?
Yeah, I think it was stupid to have Unlimited Superbike.
There aren't that many 1000's out there. Which one of you guys can actually afford to go fast on a 1000 with the tire bill they create?
Spare the idea of having more races to run.
Heavyweight classes?
The guys on 600's make up the biggest portion of club level racers, and they race in many classes. They'll spend more money on entries, and on tires, if they are going fast.
Practice?
MW, HW, and UL are combined? Where's the savings in time?
I'll just come out and say this...
UNTIL THE GUYS THAT WANT TO RACE 1000'S CAN PROVE THAT THEY WILL ACTUALLY RACE (meaning that they are reasonably serious, not the occasional recreational racer) AT EVENTS REGULARLY, THE GUYS THAT RACE 1000'S DON'T HAVE A BOTTOM LINE IMPACT ON THE FINANCES OF CCS RACING.
You've been given a class that is open to you in Unlimited Superbike. In years and years of racing, there have never been so many classes available to open class bikes. Someone go race them and try to prove someone wrong.
Hey, I'm racing unlimited superbike. ;D
dave, if heavyweight and unlimited were combined it would be no extra cost to CCS. in fact, i know it would give me more races to run in a weekend, and i would spend more money. it would also free up time on each day which would allow for more practice sessions for everyone, not just one class. everyone would benefit from combining the races. yes, 600's make up most of the population because they are fast, yet still easier on tires, and easier to ride. i just like racing a 1000, its a different type of challenge to manage that power and still try to get around the race track faster than the 600's. im not being selfish in any way for the liter bike racers. it would benefit everyone, including CCS. even if there are only 60 guys racing liter bikes on a given weekend if each one of those guys were to run one or two more races because they could CCS would make more money.
so we can scratch the idea of combining the races to add more races in a day. lets combine the races so CCS can make more money, so all the guys who race 1000's have more races to run, and to free up more time in the day for additional practice time for everyone. no one loses this way.
Quotedave, if heavyweight and unlimited were combined it would be no extra cost to CCS. in fact, i know it would give me more races to run in a weekend, and i would spend more money. it would also free up time on each day which would allow for more practice sessions for everyone, not just one class. everyone would benefit from combining the races. yes, 600's make up most of the population because they are fast, yet still easier on tires, and easier to ride. i just like racing a 1000, its a different type of challenge to manage that power and still try to get around the race track faster than the 600's. im not being selfish in any way for the liter bike racers. it would benefit everyone, including CCS. even if there are only 60 guys racing liter bikes on a given weekend if each one of those guys were to run one or two more races because they could CCS would make more money.
so we can scratch the idea of combining the races to add more races in a day. lets combine the races so CCS can make more money, so all the guys who race 1000's have more races to run, and to free up more time in the day for additional practice time for everyone. no one loses this way.
i'm confused. you want to combine HW and UNL? how would that provide you with more races to run in a weekend? do you want to change the rules of HW to allow 1000's? if that is what your saying, then do you want to have an additional UNL race too?
for your 1 liter bike guy thats gonna race 3 extra races. Theres about 8 of the 600 guys that just lost three races.
ccs will loose the money.
And there proably as much of us 750 guys as there are 1000 guys. Well last year at least. Were a dying breed.
I like the new 1000 class. at least is puts them on parity with ama superstock.
QuoteUNTIL THE GUYS THAT WANT TO RACE 1000'S CAN PROVE THAT THEY WILL ACTUALLY RACE (meaning that they are reasonably serious, not the occasional recreational racer) AT EVENTS REGULARLY, THE GUYS THAT RACE 1000'S DON'T HAVE A BOTTOM LINE IMPACT ON THE FINANCES OF CCS RACING.
I'll be at all the CCS Events this year, running in all the classes I can.
But you are right, most people ride 600's. I don't see how having more Twin Sprint weekends would hurt anything.. :-/
QuoteI think it would be cool if all weekends were twin sprint weekends....Leave the classes them same, just more races..
Following an entire season with that many individual races would be outragously expensive (as if it wasn't expensive enough)! Of course then again if your not the one fronting the bill for your racing expensis (including fees, tires, fuel, etc.) then I could see how it would be attractive to those people. If there were less events per year, and all were T/S events, then it would make more sense, but which events do you really want to sacrifice for doing that?
QuoteFollowing an entire season with that many individual races would be outragously expensive (as if it wasn't expensive enough)! Of course then again if your not the one fronting the bill for your racing expensis (including fees, tires, fuel, etc.) then I could see how it would be attractive to those people. If there were less events per year, and all were T/S events, then it would make more sense, but which events do you really want to sacrifice for doing that?
Yeah, it would be more expensive, and I do fit all my bills, I don't have a single sponsor. If people can't afford to do the Twin Sprint Weekend, then they can just do their normal load.
The people who it would be more expensive for would be the 600 Guys. They pretty much enter 6-8 races a normal weekend. (I am guessing here) So for me who can only enter 4 in a normal weekend it would be more expensive yes, but it would not be any more expensive (entry fee wise) as running a 600.
Just throwing around some ideas. I make up my time by doing Track Days in between races, but the big thing for me is like traveling to Blackhawk from Kansas City for only 4 Races. Yes I choosee to race a 1K and drive there to do it, but it would be cool (cool is the key word) if it was a twin sprint or I could do more races.
Road America was really cool, it made the 26 Hours of driving with it, becuase I got to race 7 races. That's all I am saying.
I would pay for the extra tires, fuel and entry fees to race a Twin Sprint every weekend if CCS did it.
But if one person could do it alone, the world wouldn't need AARP
;D
Quotei'm confused. you want to combine HW and UNL? how would that provide you with more races to run in a weekend? do you want to change the rules of HW to allow 1000's? if that is what your saying, then do you want to have an additional UNL race too?
good point bro, didnt look at it that way. i guess thats what happens when you try to post and work at the same time.. then i guess the simple thing to do would be to allow unlimited bikes to race in heavyweight classes. which wouldnt lead to any less races, or more practice time. and all it would do is allow unlimited guys like myself to run more classes and get more tracktime (and still spend more money). unless of course they did away with a heavyweight class, and unlimited class (say superbike for example) then that would free up two more sessions in a weekend for practice.. so the title of my post is counter productive from my actual goal.. lol, pretty funny actually. glad someone caught it though. :)
now remember guys, these are only ideas.
Quotefor your 1 liter bike guy thats gonna race 3 extra races. Theres about 8 of the 600 guys that just lost three races.
ccs will loose the money.
And there proably as much of us 750 guys as there are 1000 guys. Well last year at least. Were a dying breed.
I like the new 1000 class. at least is puts them on parity with ama superstock.
how so? this wouldnt exclude 600's, just allow 1000's to enter the same races.. there would be slightly bigger grids. so they wouldnt lose any money there.
In my opinion a 1000 is a 2nd bike anyhow, generally most that ride them as an Expert would probably also have another smaller displacement bike. 1000's are more of a luxury item, they cost more all around and generally most guys can't ride them any faster at most tracks, other than top end tracks like RA and Daytona for example.
Being that most racers don't make it past 2 or 3 seasons in this sport due to massive debt, increasing the costs related to dedicated racers trying to follow any classes for an entire season would get stupid expensive if all events were T/S events.
mike,
my 1000 is my only bike. i cant afford to race two bikes, and i chose to stick with the 1k this season. ive been racing for 4 years, and plan to keep going.
forget my original title of this thread.. all i want is to be able to run my unlimited bike in the heavyweight classes as well as unlimited classes.. i want more options to run without having to stay til the last race on sunday.
Planning and doing are two different things.
Few, and I'll say it again, FEW people last very long in this sport.
If you want to race in heavyweight classes because you want to get home early...........
Buy a 750 and race more classes.
QuoteYeah, it would be more expensive, and I do fit all my bills, I don't have a single sponsor. If people can't afford to do the Twin Sprint Weekend, then they can just do their normal load.
By doing this you can then BUY a championship instead of earn it.
And if you were to combine the the HW and UNL classes would it be one race or two?? If I entered both races and they raced together and I won I would really win 2 races. But by doing that Im screwed out of track time!!!
Leave the HW and UNL classes alone. 1 liter bikes have 3 races normally gto, ss, and sb. If you go fast thats 2 sets of tires at least unless your really good with tire management then 1 set.
The people like me that race 750's can probably kick the crap out of a 1 liter bike anyways.
If you want to race more races by a lightweight bike and race every race, or a middleweight bike, or even a heavyweight bike.
It was your decision to buy a 1 liter bike not ours. CCS was nice enough to create a new class for you this year, dont b!tch cause you made the wrong decision.
I was in the same boat you were a couple of years ago when there was no unlimited class it sucked, but I sucked it up and did what I could.
QuoteLeave the HW and UNL classes alone. 1 liter bikes have 3 races normally gto, ss, and sb. If you go fast thats 2 sets of tires at least unless your really good with tire management then 1 set.
There's also Unlimited GP. :)
Yeah Unlimited GP too.
Except in Florida where HD doesnt do it for Amatuers, which kinda sucks.
So there 4 races, you should definately use 2 sets of tires then on a liter bike.
And if all events were Twin Sprints that would be 7 races per event, 1 GT and 3 sprint classes. For those that run 600's normally in MW, HW, & UL classes the number of races required per Twin Sprint event would just be insane! So most likely what would happen is those racers would run the same number of races, just no longer as many classes, which in turn would mean smaller grids overall. So someone that normally ran GTU, MWSS, MWSB, HWSS, HWSB, ULSS, & ULSB (for a total of 7 races per event) would now be required to run 13 races to follow those same classes all season long. To compensate most likely they would drop 3 classes (6 races per event) which again would lead to smaller grids.
I agree with SD, if getting out earlier is your goal, that's not really a very good reason to change the entire system. I race at Heartland Park every year it's on the schedule, which is about 9 hours away for me, also Barber which is about 13 hours away. Convenience isn't really too common of a word associated with this sport, sacrifice would be a better word. I don't like the fact that the Unlimited class racers got stuck with the 1st and last race of the day at the last BFR event, but that's how it worked out. So I'm guessing by the 'time you leave the track' statement that in actuality you would probably still run the same number of classes, just leave earlier in the day? By allowing the 2 HW classes to be run by the UL class bikes it would still mean staying till almost the end of the day in order to run them. A few years ago there was a big discussion on how the racers were getting less track time overall thru less practice time and shorter races which led to our current event schedules with more practice time and longer races (without cutting classes and at the expense of getting out later in the day on Sunday). For a while we were getting done with our races by mid afternoon, but we also started running races before lunch (with less laps for every class) after 2 short practice rounds.
An argument I remember from back then was that the serious racers are the ones showing up for Friday practice and the more recreational racers don't. I personally usually work 6 days a week so I have to use all my vacation time just to follow a race season, even though I'm not 1 of the fast guys. For this reason I usually don't attend the Friday practices or Saturday races and it puts my 1st time on the track for the event on Sunday, which is 2 days after many 1st got on the track.
The class structure is there to provide groups for everyone to race in that are comparable in cc's to what they also have, this is why you can't 'race down' the class structure, but can go up with a smaller displacement bike. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but even someone who's only been racing for a year should be able to figure out that there will only be 4 classes they can run with a 1000. As others have said, and more will say, if you want to run more classes buy another bike or sell the 1000 and get a MW or HW bike. :)
QuoteBy doing this you can then BUY a championship instead of earn it.
LOL!
You had to start that...
When CCS championships limit the number of classes that apply to one's overall points or something, then championships will be more earned than purchased.
Quotethen that would free up two more sessions in a weekend for practice.. so the title of my post is counter productive from my actual goal.. lol, pretty funny actually. glad someone caught it though. :)
now remember guys, these are only ideas.
CCS doesn't sell practice, unless they have an SRD on a Friday before the races. So, regardless of how short the schedule runs, practice time is usually "set".
So some liter bike guys aren't content with running ULSSS, SLSB, GTO, and ULGP? So they want to run HWSS and HWSB too so they can race 6 races a day?
I've got a great idea. My 250 is only legal in 5 classes: LWGP, MWGP, ULGP, GTU, and GTO. Maybe they should let me race it in LWSS and LWSB as well. It is pretty much stock. How about ultra-light? It would give me more races.
I actually only race 3-4 races, maybe a couple more on a twin sprint. I would rather they cut out half the classes and make the races twice as long (and I'm sure charge twice as much per class). It would make the grids bigger and make the championships more meaningful.
If you want to run a literbike, buy a literbike. If you want to run a lot of classes, buy a 600. Make the choice, it's that simple. I made the choice to run two bikes that are only really competitive in one class each: the CR500 in ultra-light and the TZ250 in LWGP. I don't complain about it, and if I wanted to race a bunch of classes I would have stuck with the 600 I raced last season.
-z.
QuoteCCS doesn't sell practice, unless they have an SRD on a Friday before the races. So, regardless of how short the schedule runs, practice time is usually "set".
i never said they sell practice. i was just trying to think of a way to increase track time. so if unlimited bikes were allowed to run in heavyweight classes we could do away with unlimited superbike(just for example), and heavyweight superbike (and keep the gp class for the modified bikes) then that would free up two more spots to allow for more practice time. while also allowing the unlimited bikes more races to enter.
Quotei never said they sell practice. i was just trying to think of a way to increase track time. so if unlimited bikes were allowed to run in heavyweight classes we could do away with unlimited superbike(just for example), and heavyweight superbike (and keep the gp class for the modified bikes) then that would free up two more spots to allow for more practice time. while also allowing the unlimited bikes more races to enter.
Ummm, I'm not sure how many HW classes you think there are, but there is only 2. By eliminating 2 classes your back to where you started with 4 classes available for UL. If you were more worried about the time addition for more practice by shortening the total number of races for the day, the elimination of 2 races would only increase practice time for each group by about a total of 6 minutes, not worth it in my book!
good points mike. as ive said a few times. these are just some ideas. i didnt really give any of it much thought before i posted, i just blurted out some thoughts i had on it all. long story short all i want is to have more available classes to run my 1k in. so if i started all over all i would have said in my original post would have been...
"so when is ccs going to allow unlimited bikes to run in the heavyweight classes too"
thats all, nothing more, quite simple. forget about knocking off races, adding practice time, etc.. just that.
:)
Quote"so when is ccs going to allow unlimited bikes to run in the heavyweight classes too"
thats all, nothing more, quite simple. forget about knocking off races, adding practice time, etc.. just that.
:)
Easy...never.