LW classes!

[MUZ720]

Could we return the LW classes to LW machines??
Not that I am bitchin but being blow'n away by 1200cc BMWS and 1000cc Duc's on the banking at Daytona I think we need to rethink why these bikes are in LW??  And Why are older 600's let into LW 40 anyway when they are not in any other classes??? Do we need to have multi bikes one for each class????  seems to me there needs a review of this!
 

[roadracer162]

This is a debate that will go on until the end of time. The rider of one make of bike will argue the point of one bike being slower or another having an advantage. The answer I have received is in the form of advice and in the short form, "buy a bike that is competitive for the class you wish to run".

Personally I like having a wide array of bikes racing against each other. It is a lot of fun to race my '91 FZR600 in the Thunderbike class against the likes of Unlimited Buells, Superbike SV650, Ducati 1000, older GSXR750 and ZX7Rs. The FZR is definately the underdog to many of these bikes and the sudden twist of it is that these same bikes are allowed in the LW classes.

The best bet is to have bikes with similar performance numbers run in the same class. As many have pointed out, each year or couple of years there is a bike tat comes in and takes over the LW class. Let's see...EX500, FZR400, Hawk 650, SV650. Does that sound about right? And now the Ducati 1000, and maybe even the BMW. Oh throw in the Buell in there somewhere. The driving force to the SV650 staying the weapon of choice I think has been the price. It is the best budget racer.

I do love riding the RS125, but my old '94 is a little down on performace as compared to the new stuff.

[George_Linhart]

What exactly is a LW bike?  Under the rules of this organization a 1000 Duc, a 1200 Buel and 1200 BMW are exactly that.

Rules are rules, either accept it or start your own race organization with a class structure you think is better..  If you don't like the class find one you like more.  How about MW or perhaps Ultra LW?

I don't know what axe you have to grind but if you have an unreasonable emotional attachment to a particular bike that isn't competitive, that is your choice to race said bike. I recomend you read the rules and get what you think is most competitive, set it up right and ride the wheels off the bike!

George

[Racingxtc7]

Funny, the Triumph 675 sure was "performance indexed" out of lightweight. What do you have to say to everyone who went out and bought triumph 675's to race in lightweight?

[MUZ720]

George,
I understand the rules as they are and have no axe to grind. 
But LW bikes are not 1000cc, 1200cc machines!   
  SV650s , FZRs , Hawks, EXs or TZ125s these in my opinion are LW bikes!  I race an lightly moded SV 650 at the moment.
And I feel like saying FU  cause well you have a tude like you read about!! So stick it!
This forum as I understand it is a place to ask questions and give opinions (Guess you gave me yours) and I do think the rules as they are written right now are not fair. So i am asking the powers to be to have a look at this.
  We now have a Ultra lightweight class maybe we need a  LG. LW class??  Or better yet how about a Air Cooled Twins LW Class!     

[George_Linhart]

Why is it that SV riders always complain about any bike other than an SV allowed into "their" class?  What is it that makes a 4 valve, liquid cooled V-Twin a LW bike and an air-cooled 2 valve V-twin or boxer twin not a LW bike?  Is it absolute weight?  Engine displacement?  HP output?    If you really want to argue this I would say that that an SV650 probably isn't a "true" light weight bike either.

Back in the day this was the class for FZR400's, GS 500's and Hawk 650's.  The twin displacement rule was pretty much set around the Honda Hawk because of the Hawk was a 3 valve V-twin that was roughly comparable to the FZR400's.  Fast forward to the introduction of the SV - it dominated.  The FZR and Hawk riders complained because the SV had a more modern 4 valve head, lots more HP and a lot of potential for improvement and they didn't think it was a Lightweight Bike.  Everyone was told that this was natural progression and that they needed to dump their old, outdated bikes and should buy an SV if they want to win.  Now that a few other bikes are being competitive SV riders are crying foul...  I guess you don't see the humor because its a bit too close to home.

I am sick and tired of certain SV riders bitching and whining that their bikes aren't competitive.  Certain SVs ridden by the better riders are still at the top of the podium consistently.  Other bikes being in the mix is a good thing - it makes it interesting.

By the way deadline for submitting rules suggestions for 2007 ended on 01OCT06.  If you would have looked all of 7 posts earlier in this same section you would have realized this.  Another little bit of information - rule change requests need to be made directly to CCS via letter or emai (Links and information are on their "official" website which is www.ccsracing.com) this is just a forum for racers and fans, albeit several of the "powers" do occasionally post up and/or lurk here.

Sorry you don't like my attitude, I'll try to do better next time. 

George

[SVbadguy]

Lightweights have generally been the bikes that are bought by people new to motorcycling in general.  In the past those were the FZR400, GS500, EX500 and Hawks.   These days the modern 'beginner' sportbikes are SV650s, EX250/500s and now the Ninja 650.  I don't see how liter bikes fit into it.  By the same logic liter twins are allowed in LW I should be able to race my VFR750 in LW classes too. I don't see that happening.

[CounterSteerer]

Could we return the LW classes to LW machines??
Not that I am bitchin but being blow'n away by 1200cc BMWS and 1000cc Duc's on the banking at Daytona I think we need to rethink why these bikes are in LW??  And Why are older 600's let into LW 40 anyway when they are not in any other classes??? Do we need to have multi bikes one for each class????  seems to me there needs a review of this!
 

What was your number and what races did you run at Daytona?

[251am]

  By the same logic liter twins are allowed in LW I should be able to race my VFR750 in LW classes too. I don't see that happening.

  Err, logic? Is your VFR air cooled or liquid? Aren't VFR's V-4s?

[George_Linhart]

Lightweights have generally been the bikes that are bought by people new to motorcycling in general. 

I guess that middleweights are the "new" a lightweight bike by this description.  Take a look at the distribution numbers and there are more 600 cc sportbikes sold to new riders than anything else.  A lot of newbies also buy GSXR 1000's - should we have these considered as LW bikes too?

The only point I am making is that it seems that SV riders think Lightweight bikes are the sole teritory of SVs and cry foul at any other bike in the class that can win.  WERA's LW SS class is basically a spec SV series.  Not a bad idea if that is what you want.  F2 allows a few other makes in under limited rules.  SVs still do very well.  CCS LW and Thunderbike seem to be advantaging the Buels (based on results and looking at annual standings) but SVs still do well.  A handfull of Ducatis and a single BMW are out there with good showings.

From a technology and capability standpoint I still think the SV has the upper hand - it just takes a $2,300 falion crank to replace the POS stock unit and stay together at what the engine is capable of putting out.  It will be interesting to see what can be done with the new dual spark SV heads - the compression should be able to be bumped significantly with a lot more HP and torque as a result (if the crank stays together).  Buels have become more reliable and beter out of the box and are giving a lot of "stock" SVs a run.  Ducatis seem to be very good out of the box and there are still a lot of highly competitive, heavily modified 900SS bikes out there that can give any of the above a run for the money.  Ducati's 1000 DS engine in its stock form took a lot of cues from the modifications being done to the 900SS and it shows with great capabilities off the showroom floor.

You just can't say that SVs are the only LW bike.  They had a good run - SV riders either need to put up or shut up now that there is competition.

George

[SVbadguy]

  Err, logic? Is your VFR air cooled or liquid? Aren't VFR's V-4s?

90 horsepower and 500lbs.  That's not fair?

[ahastings]

I guess Moto-ST got it wrong when they put the BMW 1200 and Buell 1200 in the 118 hp class. I don't think the Ducati or Buells are much of an advantage over the SV 650 hp wise but the new BMW sure is, in fact it is in the same league with the SV 1000. Fortunately hardly anybody can afford to race a BMW .