So I was looking at ye olde rule book this morning in ultra light superbike..
"Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 600cc"
"Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1999 model year, up to 800cc"
So.. if I had a 1998 ducati 748.. would it be legal? Definitely wouldn't be fair, but based on the assumption of if they don't say its illegal then it is legal..
And yes I did read the rules for lightweight superbike and it looks like its excluded there, "Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, non-desmodromic valves, up to 800cc"
If it isn't specifically excluded, then it should be legal.
I don't have 08 rules with me, but I do have 06.
In 2006, the pre-99 limit was 700. Which I believe they opened up that restriction for 08.
So yes, the 748 would be legal.
I am 100% sure that it an over sight.
And I am 99% sure, Jen will want to trade in her Hawk for a 748, for the rest of the year's races.
XIII
Never even noticed that, yeah last year the limit was 700.
It's probably part of the new rules for next year that snuck through.
Quote from: Xian_13 on July 30, 2008, 01:28:19 PM
And I am 99% sure, Jen will want to trade in her Hawk for a 748, for the rest of the year's races.
There's a '98 on ebay ready to go.. :biggrin:
If that's Hord's old bike, that would be a really great bike to have.
Bodywork looks identical to the one on his page..
800cc Hawk here I come! woohoo!!!
Don't you guys and gals make me go and build the Hawk to end all Hawks now.
That 748 was Hord's bike, and being Hord's bike, is not anywhere legal to ULWSB rules... ('cos he likes to build things all crazy-like)
i dunno. if you allow 748's in, then the SV's won't be competitive and they'll have to be pushed into the Super Duper Ultra Light class :)
Quote from: tomholiday on July 30, 2008, 05:50:42 PM
i dunno. if you allow 748's in, then the SV's won't be competitive and they'll have to be pushed into the Super Duper Ultra Light class :)
Yeah, that sounds about right. It wouldn't make sense to put the 748 where it belongs. Lets push everything else down....
:lmao: hum.... I have a 98 748 in the garage right now... but yea, that just doesn't seem right.
Greg you finished the Frankenstein bike yet?
Yeah, just waiting for the permanently backordered rear wheel to come in.. :banghead:
Yep, I have the '08 rule book right here. He's right, the 748 is legal.
hmmm....i think that officially changes my plans for next year (as long as they don't try to change the rules mid-winter).
they left out the 3 valve part, the duc 748 is not legal for ultra.......
I think someone forgot to put to "non-desmo" clause in the ULW rules like it is stated in the LW rules. I believe CCS has been planning on moving the SVs into ULSB since last year. I remember a very heated thread on SV in ULW subject, and Hawk was a heated contender in that post. I believe the outcry convinced CCS to wait until next (this coming) season to implement the new rules package. I would certainly hope that a 748 would not be considered as a fit in either the current ULW or LW classes. I guess you would want conformation on the direction that CCS plans really allow the 748 in before you make your winter plans.
Eric or Kevin, can you give us some insight to the current ULW rules and your plans for next year?
Guy
doesn't the 750 make 145hp?
Quote from: ktd on August 17, 2008, 07:50:34 PM
doesn't the 750 make 145hp?
A stock 748 will make about 90 hp. The biggest drawback to the bike is it's weight. You've got to remember that this bike was designed in the early 1990's and while it was very competitive in the mid to late 1990's all of the bikes have moved on since including Ducatis.
So when is ULW coming to the greater KS/NE area? Good to know I can finally race my 748 against its true nemesis...the dreaded GS500! I will grant you that there aren't that many 97~98 748s left out there, and they are pigs. Mine weighs over 415 lbs with the tank full. I'd say a stock~ish 748 with the street giblets removed is around 450~460.
will somebody official put this to bed already, sheesh.
Quote from: tomholiday on September 09, 2008, 05:36:19 PM
will somebody official put this to bed already, sheesh.
I think it has been put to rest. Eric and Kevin look at this forum daily. I would assume thier silence has spoken that it is leagl now, and they are thinking about next year.
What do you think Kevin and / or Eric? Help us out here.
Quote from: crimsoncloak on September 09, 2008, 05:34:16 PM
Mine weighs over 415 lbs with the tank full. I'd say a stock~ish 748 with the street giblets removed is around 450~460.
My Buell post race weight was 452#. I think you need to be in middleweight.
Quote from: Greg_Williams on August 18, 2008, 08:03:14 AM
A stock 748 will make about 90 hp. The biggest drawback to the bike is it's weight. You've got to remember that this bike was designed in the early 1990's and while it was very competitive in the mid to late 1990's all of the bikes have moved on since including Ducatis.
With that in mind and based on those figures the Duc 1000 DS should also be a ULSB.
Mark
Quote from: Greg_Williams on August 18, 2008, 08:03:14 AM
A stock 748 will make about 90 hp. The biggest drawback to the bike is it's weight. You've got to remember that this bike was designed in the early 1990's and while it was very competitive in the mid to late 1990's all of the bikes have moved on since including Ducatis.
Ok, so what can I race with my bike designed in 1903? Is that where the 1203cc's comes from? Or is that the year it was really designed?
Come on Dave the Buell is clearly heavier than the 748....hence the Buell races in lightweight and the 748, being even lighter, is in Ultra-lightweight. Totally logical.
Quote from: crimsoncloak on September 10, 2008, 03:46:24 PM
Come on Dave the Buell is clearly heavier than the 748....hence the Buell races in lightweight and the 748, being even lighter, is in Ultra-lightweight. Totally logical.
Ok, I'll give you some good karma for that...
Ducati 748 should not have been included as a legal machine in Ultra-Light
Wording should have been twin cylinder liquid cooled, pre 1999 model year, up to 700cc
I had not read this thread as I figured it had to do with SV650, Ninja650 for next year and was just going to let ideas flow.
The correction will be made for 2009
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on September 11, 2008, 09:15:23 AM
Ducati 748 should not have been included as a legal machine in Ultra-Light
Wording should have been twin cylinder liquid cooled, pre 1999 model year, up to 700cc
I had not read this thread as I figured it had to do with SV650, Ninja650 for next year and was just going to let ideas flow.
The correction will be made for 2009
Thanks Eric!!!
I was begining to worry
Hehe... just thought I'd let you know, even if they do the SV/EX allowance in '09, we just decided that I'm running my Hawk next year again... out of spite. :lmao:
Quote from: truckstop on September 11, 2008, 11:01:14 AM
Hehe... just thought I'd let you know, even if they do the SV/EX allowance in '09, we just decided that I'm running my Hawk next year again... out of spite. :lmao:
Show off!!!
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on September 11, 2008, 09:15:23 AM
Ducati 748 should not have been included as a legal machine in Ultra-Light
Wording should have been twin cylinder liquid cooled, pre 1999 model year, up to 700cc
I had not read this thread as I figured it had to do with SV650, Ninja650 for next year and was just going to let ideas flow.
The correction will be made for 2009
Dang it. I was hoping that sooner or later my 2002 GSXR1000 would be eligible for this class also.
Mark
Quote from: truckstop on September 11, 2008, 11:01:14 AM
Hehe... just thought I'd let you know, even if they do the SV/EX allowance in '09, we just decided that I'm running my Hawk next year again... out of spite. :lmao:
ditto :cheers:
since this is the ask eric thread how about pre 98 900 ducati's then i can run my old clanker in another sv class
Is the SV going to be an UL next year? :ahhh:
Quote from: roadracer22 on September 11, 2008, 11:02:59 PM
Dang it. I was hoping that sooner or later my 2002 GSXR1000 would be eligible for this class also.
Mark
Maybe in 2015... Of course, it won't be much competition for the 2000cc, 240 lb Buell that will be there as well.
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on October 05, 2008, 08:52:10 AM
Maybe in 2015... Of course, it won't be much competition for the 2000cc, 240 lb Buell that will be there as well.
hhahahahahaha....that is hilarious but so true.
Quote from: Ducmarc on October 04, 2008, 08:35:46 PM
since this is the ask eric thread how about pre 98 900 ducati's then i can run my old clanker in another sv class
Marc,
Sooner or later it will be and probably sooner, then right behind that the DS1000 will also be allowed.
Mark
it sure is getting tough on us cheap guys. it's noy all the differant bikes it's the guys with heavyweight budgets i mean new tires every month fancy race gas AC in their trailers and sleeping at night in hotels. these guys even buy breakfest no continental bagel for them
how about a 2000$ buy out class if a guy wins and you think he spends to much you protest by a buy out we had this rule in street stock you could buy the winners motor for 150 bucks sure kept the motor department cheap of course that was many years ago or maybe a trade out you could trade with the winner like a top 5 thing if we have that many on the grid.
You and me both Marc. This is the first year that I have spent as much money racing. My usual budget for the year is $5000 but I have blown that out of the water this year.
Mark
hey marc you comming to daytona for the spendfest let's see 3 laps practice 5 laps race crash in horseshoe in front of the peanut gallery priceless
Hahahahaha. I am working on it. I am thinking to show up for Friday, Saturday and sunday practice then race on Sunday afternoon. How about you?
Mark
thinking of about the same lightweight 40 and thunderbike fortunately i live 45min from track so don't have to do a lot of planing do have a rs125 that i've been playing with may try it .a couple years ago freddie cortez won the big trophy in am 125 when there was only two of them on the grid and the other guy broke a reed we gave him a hard time because it was like his 2nd or third race ever and he gets moved to expert just like that but he still has that trophy on his mantle. and no one asks how my bikes were on the grid.
Quote from: roadracer22 on October 05, 2008, 01:11:35 PM
Marc,
Sooner or later it will be and probably sooner, then right behind that the DS1000 will also be allowed.
Mark
The DS 1000 is legal in LW. I think it has been for 3 years or so.
Yeah the 1000 is. We were talking about the 1000 in Ultralight that some day it will also be included in the lower class.
Mark
So, seeing as the 09 rules have been pushed out there... ULSB still says Pre 99, liquid twin up to 800cc. Can I go get me an antique 748 and be legal? : )
The 748 is not legal in ULWSB, but it is legal for Thunderbike. The SV riders are loving their new playground in the Ultralight ranks as they are all cleaning up.
Mark
From one aspect it is nice that the SV guys now have a class to themselves. I continue to advocate that in true superbike trim a properly built SV650 can be just as potent as most Buell's and Ducati 1000SS racers. Just look at the machines that Ed Key races if you need a proof of the concept. Its just that the average SV guys like to have at least one class to dominate just like when they came in and took over LW from the FZR400's and Hawk GT's...
Unfortuantely, the fans of the "real" lightweight bikes are now completely squeezed out of everything in CCS and can only really be competitive in the vintage classes of other series.
Its all cool. I'll race no matter what the rules just to go out and race. It is nice to be competitive but the key is going out and having fun doing something you enjoy. A plaque at the end of the day doesn't mean nearly as much as coming home in one piece with a shiny bike!
George
George - I am right with you on that thought. It isn't only Ed Key that goes fast on an SV although he definitely is a stand out. There is also Kyle Keesee and Rodolfo Ramirez from the Florida region that can really fly. Kyle was able to run a 2:08 flat at Daytona, on a stock SV, some 2 seconds faster than any other SV. He does pretty well against those Duc 1000s.
I still race my FZR400 although severely outclassed in all departments. Yes I could build the motor to a 489 and sit on a potential grenade under me. This FZR is a reliable ride that teaches me on so many demensions.
Mark
Quote from: roadracer22 on March 16, 2009, 08:28:52 PM
The 748 is not legal in ULWSB, but it is legal for Thunderbike. The SV riders are loving their new playground in the Ultralight ranks as they are all cleaning up.
Mark
Which rule prohibits the 748 then? As written, and without a specific single bike restriction noted, I don't see how you can keep the older 748 out.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on September 11, 2008, 09:15:23 AM
Ducati 748 should not have been included as a legal machine in Ultra-Light
Wording should have been twin cylinder liquid cooled, pre 1999 model year, up to 700cc
I had not read this thread as I figured it had to do with SV650, Ninja650 for next year and was just going to let ideas flow.
The correction will be made for 2009
Quote from: Kurlon on March 17, 2009, 08:31:27 AM
Which rule prohibits the 748 then? As written, and without a specific single bike restriction noted, I don't see how you can keep the older 748 out.
Well, I guess it was never corrected and it is legal per my 2009 rule book.
Mark
Quote from: roadracer22 on March 17, 2009, 08:17:26 AM
George - I am right with you on that thought. It isn't only Ed Key that goes fast on an SV although he definitely is a stand out. There is also Kyle Keesee and Rodolfo Ramirez from the Florida region that can really fly. Kyle was able to run a 2:08 flat at Daytona, on a stock SV, some 2 seconds faster than any other SV. He does pretty well against those Duc 1000s.
nah, on myracingbio.com I see at least one other SV I know is LWSS legal in the mid 2:08's. I dipped into the 2:08's (SV in LWSS trim) as an amateur at last years ROC and really don't consider myself one of "those guys". I wasn't at the spring races this year - it was the same layout as the 2008 ROC, right?
2008 ROC was the same layout. A 2:08 was good enough in the Expert GT lights for a 5th place I believe. Not too shabby for a SS SV against all those Ducs. If you ran that as an Amateur, then you are one fast Am. Congrats.
Mark
the cams were worn out on my sv thats why it would not rev past 9k,it has been fixed now and hopefully it will be back to normal power now,the engine is 100% stock also.I'll be at jennings to test it out so see you there.
Mark - Hopefully I can give you a run for the money. I really did a number on the Ducati and I don't know if I will have it back together. We shall see. Either way I will be there with the FZR400.
Mark
The 749 should be allowed in UL and LW classes now. It is slow and SV's are faster so why not? Yeah that should be fine. :thumb: