Should the GSXR565 (and similar bikes) be outlawed?

Started by MACOP1104, July 13, 2014, 09:41:58 AM

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LWT Racer

I did, my mistake.   But yes 600's are so amazing now they can do lap times or damn close to that of a 1000.
Sam Wiest #60
TWF Racing | LWT Racer
Lighweight Racing - The struggle is real.

MACOP1104

Gino. how does a 127hp bike only go 138mph at Daytona?  You must be horrible out of the chicane....  :)

Gino230

Quote from: Swiest on July 14, 2014, 09:39:45 PM
I love the lightweight class.  I love that it's cheap to race.  The danger factor is much lower.  The racing is good.  The general personality of the riders is excellent.  For less than $4,000, you can race LWT and be competitive (up here in the north) or with another club. 


FWIW, I wish I could be competitive on a $4000 bike (in ALL the LW classes) too. But that's just not reality and I don't think any changing of the rules will make it so.

I do remember when Mike Mills had an SV that was putting out over 100HP. He could run MW times on that bike but it was tough to get it through the weekend. Massive radiator, oil cooler, ram air box, etc....it was a neat bike.
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

Gino230

Quote from: MACOP1104 on July 15, 2014, 10:03:45 AM
Gino. how does a 127hp bike only go 138mph at Daytona?  You must be horrible out of the chicane....  :)

HA!

Well, I'm not the fastest, but I am not the slowest, either. I got 5th this year in LWGP doing a time of 203.5 on the big bore Duc. I know what you're saying about exit drives, but top speed is top speed, the bike is tapped out before Nascar 4. I believe I was beaten by Philippe Touya, Mavros, Turpin, and Orlando. I don't think those bikes were any faster than mine (well maybe Mavros' Paul Smart was) but they were riding the wheels off....got down into the 58's I believe.

My point was more about dyno HP numbers not being everything. I rode an 848 with SS mods in the team challenge, that bike was about 138HP and it was doing well over 160 on the banking....despite my crummy run out of the chicane ;)
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

LWT Racer

If your bike really only does 138mph, SV and ER would have no issue. 
Sam Wiest #60
TWF Racing | LWT Racer
Lighweight Racing - The struggle is real.

sdiver68

I cannot fathom a class where 120+ hp Bimotas and Pierobons with WSBK electronics package are legal but a 565 is not.  A 250GP bike is legal also.  But I guess that's my humble lower middle class roots showing.

So let's go old school for a second and talk about SV racing.  I should know, I was 1 before inventing the GSXR565 concept and asking Ben to build the world's first.  Fact is, rider weight and size has a lot to do with lap times on lower HP machines for any given rider skill level.  Also, mechanics who can deal with a fragile engine at the track can build serious HP into the SV that those of us without mechanical ability cannot.  So exactly how are either of those factors "fair"?  Until you come up with an affordable spec class, HP and minimum combined weight, there is always going to be an obstacle to overcome unless you happen to be small in size and above average in mechanical ability.

BTW, with GPS data in hand from even the high speed tracks, I can tell you the speed differentials being reported by some are WAY out of whack.  For instance, I was accused of passing someone at Road Atlanta by 25mph on the back straight...when in reality GPS data showed only 5 mph difference between my 565 and the SV.



MCRA Race School Instructor

MACOP1104

Quote from: sdiver68 on July 15, 2014, 05:42:01 PM
I cannot fathom a class where 120+ hp Bimotas and Pierobons with WSBK electronics package are legal but a 565 is not.  A 250GP bike is legal also.  But I guess that's my humble lower middle class roots showing.

So let's go old school for a second and talk about SV racing.  I should know, I was 1 before inventing the GSXR565 concept and asking Ben to build the world's first.  Fact is, rider weight and size has a lot to do with lap times on lower HP machines for any given rider skill level.  Also, mechanics who can deal with a fragile engine at the track can build serious HP into the SV that those of us without mechanical ability cannot.  So exactly how are either of those factors "fair"?  Until you come up with an affordable spec class, HP and minimum combined weight, there is always going to be an obstacle to overcome unless you happen to be small in size and above average in mechanical ability.

BTW, with GPS data in hand from even the high speed tracks, I can tell you the speed differentials being reported by some are WAY out of whack.  For instance, I was accused of passing someone at Road Atlanta by 25mph on the back straight...when in reality GPS data showed only 5 mph difference between my 565 and the SV.

what was your top speed at Rd Atl?

sdiver68

#43
140.1, with most laps in the 138-139 range.
MCRA Race School Instructor

MACOP1104

#44
Quote from: sdiver68 on July 15, 2014, 06:10:09 PM
140.1, with most laps in the 138-139 range.

Xavier hit 137 on my SV.  That was from the LWSBK race with no draft.   The bike has stock bore and stroke and is not even close to 100hp.   

LWT Racer

Quote from: sdiver68 on July 15, 2014, 05:42:01 PM
I cannot fathom a class where 120+ hp Bimotas and Pierobons with WSBK electronics package are legal but a 565 is not.

I guess you didn't read anything.  This isn't about just the 565......
Sam Wiest #60
TWF Racing | LWT Racer
Lighweight Racing - The struggle is real.

sdiver68

#46
Quote from: MACOP1104 on July 13, 2014, 09:41:58 AM
Do you feel the 565 has such an enormous performance advantage that the rules should be changed or the bike in its current state should be outlawed?

I did answer the question, Sam.  I see you are still whining.  :blahblah:
MCRA Race School Instructor

LWT Racer

#47
2nd post, I expanded on what Mike originally posted to include all the high HP machines.

It's funny how I can agree and get along with Ben, but not you.  I thought you were his offspring. :)
Sam Wiest #60
TWF Racing | LWT Racer
Lighweight Racing - The struggle is real.