Formula 40 Rules

[stillslow]

When you vote on the topic keep an open mind about what bikes actually turn the fastest lap times. Don't look at it from the point of view " I only have a small displacement bike and I can't keep up with the 750's now" Most of the liter bike guys can't either. Most older guys who have liter bikes bought the bike and then later decided to go to the track because it was safer than "racing" on the steets. Most of us got our license so we could race against older guys like ourselves only to find out that we can't race in that class because our bikes are too "fast". Every crotchrocket person in the world knows it is not the bike but the rider. If it were otherwise I should be able to smoke Steve Keener with my liter bike over his SV650. AIN'T happening. Give us old liter guys a break, let us ride with people our own age. ;) ;)

[Gixxer124]

True, the rider is what usually makes fast lap times, but how many times does this happen; you close up or pass on the brakes or the corners only to have the big bike blow pass you in between? You have to have some kind of limit on size. Sell your litre bike,  buy a 600 or 750, and quit yer bitchen. Oh, that won't work. You can't have any fun on the street with a smaller bike. :P

[Dawn]

OK guys...

Let's think about this - The start finish on most race tracks are on the front straight.  Where do the liter bikes have the advantage over the smaller ones, on the straights.

Every person who races has a competative streak.  If they didn't they wouldn't be racing.  My husband runs a lightweight bike and he does have the advantage in the corners and can out brake and out corner a bigger bike, but on the straights he is at a disadvantage.  

The only way it would be fair to run a liter bike in Formula Forty is to have a LW and HW class.  Until CCS would have two different classes - I don't want the rule changed.

My 2 seconds

Dawn   ;)
(official lap timer for anyone who gives me a beer)

[stillslow]

Why would I sell my liter bike? It's paid for. The pleasure I would derive from racing in Formula 40 Is not worth the pain and suffering I would have from taking such a loss on the liter bike. As for pregnant dogin', how many posts (read opinions) have you offered for everyones amusement?
     As for long straight vs. turns and speed. Doesn't it come down to lap time? If your husband turns 1:21 and I turn 1:22, didn't he win. We started from the same place.
     I am not trying to start trouble with anyone. All I'm saying is "If the GSXR 750 by all tests is consistantly faster in all respects than 99% of the liter bikes then it would only seem fair to let the "slower" liter bikes race with them in a class that was formed by AGE."   If you don't like my opinion don't read my opinion. Read someone's opinion that you agree with. My opinion is because I have a liter bike and yours is because you have a 600 and are afraid of "liter bikes". If this is UNtrue. lets race.(In the Formula 40 class) ;) ;) ;)

[Dawn]

Still Slow:

Let us know if and when you ever get to Blackhawk Farms raceway.  This way we can compare our lap times.  


Dawn   :)

[billryr8828]

Correct me if I am wrong but are not the majority of road courses in this country consist of 70% or better corners with the remaing 30% or so being straightaways? The smaller bikes are generally known to carry much more corner speed than a liter bike with equal riders aboard. So if the track consist of over 2/3's corners and 1/3rd straights then the smaller bikes should pull out enough distance thru the corners that the big bike would have too much to make up to do it on the straights alone. Granted each class of bikes has its strengths and weaknesses but it appears that those are only looked at one sided. It is fine that the 600's are faster thru the corners as that is their strong point but with the bigger bikes strength being the straight everybody starts crying about the speed and being passed on the straight. I also agree that both bikes are running the same track so WHOEVER has the best laptimes will be the winner. If the guy on the liter bike stays close enough to pass you on the straight don't think he is not working his rear off to keep in close enough contact to be able to make that pass. I also do not agree that selling the liter bike to be an option but not because of a money loss situation but rather the lessened FUN factor I would get out of something like an SV or a 600 class bike. Granted my liter bike may not turn the lap times (with me on board anyway!) of some of the smaller bikes but its like being aboard a raging beast or a stallion instead of a gelding as the beast will try to spit you off at any given opportunity much more so than some of the smaller bikes. So not only are you racing your competetors, and racing the track but you have the added sense of taming the wild beast sort of. I do not expect those who have not experienced the liter bike thrill to understand but it does add a lot to the track experience and does add an extra sense of acomplishment regardless of the lap times. I guess that we will all keep our opinions but with the 750 class of bikes pretty much headed the way of the dinasaur then I guess that the formula 40 class as it stand now will need to change its name to something like old guys on little bikes as everything will be 600's or less!

[stillslow]

Whoa Dawn, This is starting to take on a chest beating attitude. If you want to compare lap times, that's fine but hopefully yours are not as bad as mine. I didn't anywhere in my scribblings say anything about being fast. That is one of the reasons I want to not ride GTO and Unlimited SS. I don't care that I am not a front runner, I think it is safer to ride with people who are not ate up with the "Gotta win" attitude. I know the people in the F40 class want to win also but not to the point that they or the people they ride with can't go to work on Mondays. I probably woudn't be a front runner in F40 even with my Super-power faster-than-light liter bike but the percentage of chance of getting run over is less. Isn't that why they invented that class anyway. If the liter bikes were added to the F40 class it probably won't change the outcome of the race. The normal winners will still be the normal winners and the rest of US will still finish where we normally finish, but the US has a better chance of finishing. It's hard to explain how chocolate cake taste to someone who has never tasted chocolate cake, but I'm trying. :-/  :-/ :-/ :-*

[Gixxer124]

I don't totally disagree with you. Most likely, results would not be much different with the big bikes included. I guess it's the thought of the guy that shows up on a 1000, whose fast on anything, and kicks everybodies butt. Everybody would start crying about how it's not fair. I feel that there has to be a limit. At Gateway this year, the top 6 bikes were nose to tail across the finish line. If it's not broke...

[stillslow]

Looking at it from your point of view, I agree. Looking at it from a liter bike owners point of view, Ya can't blame me for trying. When it comes down to it, the only one that wins is CCS because there will be more entries in F40. I was told by the local race school here " You would not believe how many people go through this school on monster bikes and then find out they can't use them to race with."           I can't begin to tell you how people who own 600s feel about class structure because I have never been there, but when it comes to liter bikes...... Have you ever noticed that most 125 and 250 two stroke riders seem to congrigate together? Same with Liter bikes.  

[EX#996]

Still Slow:

I wasn't chest beating and I'm sorry if you took offense.  What I do know is Paul can have some lap times that are close to the liter bikes, but he has to ride his rear off to do it.  Still, a good rider on a liter bike even if they can't corner as well still has the advantage.

Dawn   ;)

[billryr8828]

We are getting nowhere following this same path of thought, what if the liter bikes anbd maybe the 750's were to start from a "second" wave behind the smaller bikes giving the smaller bikes a 10 to 15 second advantage at the start? Then IF a guy on a liter bike works his way to the front it will be a well deserved win and the guys on the smaller bikes will not feel that they are put at a disadvantage. I agree with stillslow winning would be cool but not the MAIN focus of a lot of guys AND IF NOTHING ELSE THE LITER GUYS WOULD BE IN THE BACK WITH THEIR OWN LITTLE INTERNAL WAR RAGING but at least we would have the opportunity to race in what we feel would be a safer enviroment and still offer the same or more amount of enjoyment due to the more relaxed atmosphere. What do think a workable compromise here?

[stillslow]

It's just not fair to exclude any class motorcycle if the pre- requisite is age. It would benefit all who participate in F40 to have a LW (up to and including 675cc) and a HW (676cc and up).If we can convince CCS to go along with the extra effort on their part we (I think) would all be happy. Yes or no? ::)