Maybe I missed it somewhere but what are the SV rules for Ultralight in 09. I have Gixxer forks but stock motor. Am I OK ?
Yes. I believe that everythig for Superbike goes except that it will remain stock bore.
Mark
Quote from: roadracer22 on November 20, 2008, 08:47:33 AM
Yes. I believe that everythig for Superbike goes except that it will remain stock bore.
Mark
Have you recieved confimation from CCS on this? I did not know the rules package was released by CCS.
Thanks Guy
The rule was never written last year and there is still no clarification as to whether it must be stock bore or if 1mm over is allowed as in all SS classes. Furthermore the proposal as written last year proposed the SV650s inclusion with restrictions but since they were never officially spelled out no one knows what mods will be allowed.
I emailed Eric a while ago about this. He said that its superbike rules with max displacement of 650cc.
man I feel bad for all of the ULW guys.
I personally don't know the rules for 2009 but my opinion is only speculative and based more on rumor. I would also guess that the 650cc rule will not allow an overbore as it is the case with the Ducati 800 (up to 805cc). I am fairly sure the stock displacement of the Ducati 800 is 803cc. Either way I don't see why 75-80hp would not be achievable and would give the Ducati 800 a run for the money as far as hp. The SV certainly has the edge in the weight department and probably more so in the technical aspect of it. So much for being competitive on my FZR400. An FZR560 could be allowed to help but what a grenade that would be.
I have done pretty well on my stock FZR400 with my best results in the GT lights race in Homestead where I finished 5th.
Mark
Mark
I understood that SV-650s prepared to Supersport spec will be allowed in ULWSB... just rumor and hear-say.
I think this makes a lot of sense, as the SV is, build-for-build, decidedly faster than anything in ULWSB. So, if any rules makers are reading this, consider that my vote.
I think a SS SV-650 (okay, maybe not Ed Key's SS 650) would be a good match for a 400 with wheels, forks, and a hotter motor...
Also, there seems to be such a performance gap between SuperSport and Superbike lightweights (SVs in particular), that the SS guys currently have only one race to grid up for where they're 'optimized.'
You know, a lot of people complain about SVs being class overdogs. I should, as I'll hopefully be on the ULSB grid next year not on an SV (shhh)... But all classes can't be even. All bikes aren't created equal. I'm just thankful that, in this case, the class overdog is an economical streetbike as opposed to a $18k Ducati 1098S or a $30k Bimita.
If the SV is going to run in ULW, and they plan on using the 650cc stipulation. They need to be sure to make the motors not only 650 but SS too(stock carbs too). Superbike chassis and weight is one thing, but I know I could show up with a 85-88 hp 650cc motor no problem. And that just isnt fair. Im not running LW next year so I dont have a big dog in this fight, but I build bikes for people on occasion, and I know it would be no big task to show up with a 320lb 88 hp stock bore SV650, and that just seems silly for a ULW bike. Just like with the ducatis in LW, I think they are fine, but should be limited to SS rules, especially the motors. Once again just my opinion.
Ben,
I am with you there, but again from what I have heard it is Superbike rules and the SV will be stock bore but probably will be allowed High comp pistons along with all the other stuff to make it go even faster.
Is it too late to ask for a larger bore inline 4?
Mark
SB spec with 650cc is what I heard too, but don't know the extent either.
Either way...
Booo.... hisss.... :(
But at least this year we knew it was coming. As I said elsewhere, I'm riding the Hawk next year still... out of spite.
I hope it's SB rules for the SV because that will at least give me some LW classes to run in.
Quote from: truckstop on November 23, 2008, 12:02:58 AM
SB spec with 650cc is what I heard too, but don't know the extent either.
Either way...
Booo.... hisss.... :(
But at least this year we knew it was coming. As I said elsewhere, I'm riding the Hawk next year still... out of spite.
Wasn't it a Hawk that won the Daytona ROC??
Mark
Quote from: roadracer22 on November 23, 2008, 09:03:23 AM
Wasn't it a Hawk that won the Daytona ROC??
Mark
Yup, one won expert ULSB, another won amateur.
Quote from: Kurlon on November 23, 2008, 02:46:36 PM
Yup, one won expert ULSB, another won amateur.
In think this year it may be a Ducati 800 at the front.
Mark
Quote from: roadracer22 on November 23, 2008, 03:38:36 PM
In think this year it may be a Ducati 800 at the front.
Mark
Is this based on a specific rider/bike combo? Or do you believe the 800 is the most capable bike? As I said before, I know what kind of SV I would show up with if I were going to run this class and be looking for a national championship, and there are a handful of people out there who will go even further, and I just dont see anything but a "big" LW bike running with a real superbike SV, even with the limit set to 650 CC. Getting the SV near 90 hp isnt too hard, and it certainly doesnt require big pistons, getting over that 90 hump is when you start to need the complete package as far as pistons, head development, and cam profiles working together. I ran a mild superbike 650 for a few months at the starts of the season 2 years ago before dropping in the big motor, and it was on par with some of the best SS ducati 1000's (capable of pulling up in the draft and passing - im 6-6 240lbs he was 5'5 160lbs) in the country. I dont see an 800 or anything else for that matter running with it in ULW. Just like the F2 debate (I think) you have to take into account the extremes, just because the average F2 isnt blindingly fast, you have to take into account the guys who will shave 75lbs off it it and improve hp 20-30%. It sounds like the rule is already set, just tossing in my thought.
I'm only talking trash. I recently acquired an 800 it it runs pretty good. I would say on par with an SV, just not as much development. Now I just gotta lose some weight from me and the bike to be even on all counts.
Mark
WAh Wah Wah
You guys sound like the sv guys (count me as one) did when 1000cc Ducs 1200cc BMWs 1400cc HDs where let into LW classes! fair ???? No but there air cooled !! it is what it s is! Plus 800cc ducs and build hawks and I know a few older FZR400/600s all making more then 80hp rule ULW now anyway whats a few 650cc SV going to do to that mix??
I think its going to make for a good class and I dont run a SV anymore!
Quote from: MUZ720 on November 24, 2008, 12:59:47 PM
WAh Wah Wah
You guys sound like the sv guys (count me as one) did when 1000cc Ducs 1200cc BMWs 1400cc HDs where let into LW classes! fair ???? No but there air cooled !! it is what it s is! Plus 800cc ducs and build hawks and I know a few older FZR400/600s all making more then 80hp rule ULW now anyway whats a few 650cc SV going to do to that mix??
I think its going to make for a good class and I dont run a SV anymore!
Dang, another trash talker. Bring it on.
Mark
Sounds good to me. More classes to run as well. I can show up with both SVs and run how many races in one day? The more ride time the better. I hate sitting around doing nothing at the track.
Quote from: grasshopper on November 25, 2008, 12:01:26 AM
Sounds good to me. More classes to run as well. I can show up with both SVs and run how many races in one day? The more ride time the better. I hate sitting around doing nothing at the track.
Can't wait!!!
See ya in the MA rounds back east fellas.....on the SV and the Duc..
Quote from: roadracer22 on November 24, 2008, 11:43:24 AM
I'm only talking trash. I recently acquired an 800 it it runs pretty good. I would say on par with an SV, just not as much development. Now I just gotta lose some weight from me and the bike to be even on all counts.
Mark
Both my SS SV and 800 Duc put out 75hp on the dyno. Of course, that was before the SV motor had seen 4 seasons. ::)
Thank you Becka. I have ridden both of my buddies bikes, one a SS sV and the other a Duc 800 SS and I was able to turn virtually the same lap time on the same day. The one change is the difference in Tires and suspension set-up. Neither was optimized for me. The SV seemed to turn easier, but the brakes were so much stronger on the Duc.
I hope mine will go pretty good in the end when I learn to ride it. REportedly making 86 rwhp on a Superflow dyno-charts to prove it.
Mark
Quote from: funsizeracing on November 28, 2008, 02:48:10 PM
Both my SS SV and 800 Duc put out 75hp on the dyno. Of course, that was before the SV motor had seen 4 seasons. ::)
I need 90hp from my SV to keep up with her on the straights!
Quote from: HAWK on November 29, 2008, 12:28:40 AM
I need 90hp from my SV to keep up with her on the straights!
lol, imagine me! We used to race together and it was like she was on a frickin 600 coming out of corners she just jumped away from my big ass. Not anymore though, I think she is down to about 65 DJ hp. I was standing in the woods for the braking zone of 5 at RA, and Hernan came by her with about, ohh I dont know, 35 miles an hour give or take lol. Sweet payback for all those straightaway passes she has given me back in the day (passed me in the corners too but that wasnt nearly as humiliating).
Quote from: klebs01 on November 20, 2008, 04:23:28 PM
I emailed Eric a while ago about this. He said that its superbike rules with max displacement of 650cc.
Klebs01
Can you post that email for all to see?
Eric,
Please post CCS's plans on this. I am building a new bike. I need to know what size to make the engine. If it is undecided and you are taking input: I would really like to see 1mm overbore allowed on the SV. The cylinders do wear and a 1mm overbore would prevent frequent re-sleeving.
Guy
Quote from: EX_#76 on December 01, 2008, 11:47:23 AM
Eric,
Please post CCS's plans on this. I am building a new bike. I need to know what size to make the engine. If it is undecided and you are taking input: I would really like to see 1mm overbore allowed on the SV. The cylinders do wear and a 1mm overbore would prevent frequent re-sleeving.
Guy
+1 here. 1mm is legal for SS. If it is not allowed, a SS legal bike would not be legal for SBK!
I thought this was already official and announced? In the CCS mailer that I recently rcvd I'm pretty sure it said the SV is capped at 650cc for ulsb.
Quote from: race712 on December 01, 2008, 02:35:37 PM
I thought this was already official and announced? In the CCS mailer that I recently rcvd I'm pretty sure it said the SV is capped at 650cc for ulsb.
Yes, you are correct that subject was in the mailer. That was under the recomendations for update to CCS. It is my understanding that the changes are not official and subject to change until the new rule book is printed. That is why I would like to here what the rules are from a CCS official before I do anything on the new bike.
See link to mailer http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2009/license/2009%20license%20mailer.pdf
Guy
UlSB 650cc 1999 and later water cooled twins
Hmmm - I love riding SV's - Some of the most fun racing I've done. I rode a Honda Hawk in 2004 or 2005 in the ULSB class. The thing was super light and had a HOT motor. I remember running Ed down at AutoBahn - Was stoked that I had my first chance at beating Ed. Didn't happen though cause I asspacked him and destroyed the bike - One of the worst concussions I have ever had. Never got another chance at Ed tho - I bent a crank in the HOT motor and then lost the tranny in the KINDA HOT motor at the next event. The bike has sat ever since.
If there was some sort of contingency from Suzuki - I would ride an SV again.
Well - If Guy put me on one of his bikes I would race it :) Hint Hint
Then again - I wouldn't want to steal Ed's thunder.....
Quote from: Scotty Ryan on December 03, 2008, 01:20:01 AM
Hmmm - I love riding SV's - Some of the most fun racing I've done. I rode a Honda Hawk in 2004 or 2005 in the ULSB class. The thing was super light and had a HOT motor. I remember running Ed down at AutoBahn - Was stoked that I had my first chance at beating Ed. Didn't happen though cause I asspacked him and destroyed the bike - One of the worst concussions I have ever had. Never got another chance at Ed tho - I bent a crank in the HOT motor and then lost the tranny in the KINDA HOT motor at the next event. The bike has sat ever since.
If there was some sort of contingency from Suzuki - I would ride an SV again.
Well - If Guy put me on one of his bikes I would race it :) Hint Hint
Then again - I wouldn't want to steal Ed's thunder.....
A ride on my bike can be bought.... hint - hint
Of course if you wad it up, I will inflict great pain upon your wallet
Do you have a 650cc SV? I thought standard pistons were too small for your hands to grasp.
Quote from: HAWK on December 03, 2008, 12:31:43 PM
Do you have a 650cc SV? I thought standard pistons were too small for your hands to grasp.
Haha, Yep I still have my SS motor. STD bore, just needs trans. I am collecting parts to finish off a new chassis.
I wrap a rag around the pistons so they don't slip through my hands!!!!
The Ducati 800 won another one this past weekend. I ran it in GT lights and finished 5th in between some very fast guys and bikes. I am slowly learning this thing. If only I knew how to ride it when I was at Daytona.
Mark
my sv650 will be ready for some action this year. Now i got a good backup bike and i can switch bike to the weather conditions. My 1988 FZR400 now has HISTORIC TAGS now and runs on the street . started racing it in 2000-2001 ,then 2006-2008, this bike has finished EVERY race it was ever in!!
Quote from: apriliaman on December 08, 2008, 09:20:16 PM
my sv650 will be ready for some action this year. Now i got a good backup bike and i can switch bike to the weather conditions. My 1988 FZR400 now has HISTORIC TAGS now and runs on the street . started racing it in 2000-2001 ,then 2006-2008, this bike has finished EVERY race it was ever in!!
Kewl Mark! That's a nice bike!! I'll break out my '72 and we'll go for a tour of the country side! :cheers:
i'll let you guys pour money into engine development on your superbike SV650's and DUC 800's in the lightweight class and i'll still come by you on my diminuitive TZ250. I'm only kidding, good thing my lilttle TZ is only eligible for LW GP. Just my .02. If i could afford two race bikes I'd have an SV or a DUC so i could race all of the LW classes or whatever ULSB classes It was eligible for.
My FZR won't be retired from racing yet. I will be putting together anoter 1988FZR400 for the street as well. I love these things.
Mark
The Ducati 800 won another race this past weekend in Homestead. I did pretty good in the GT lights against some very fast bikes and guys with a 5th place finish. Lots of credit goes to the Penguin school with Eric Wood giving some pointers, and also the boys at MotoCorse for a well built motor.
Mark
i'll still do some trackdays on it.Just for fun.
Quote from: erock768 on December 08, 2008, 10:08:18 PM
i'll let you guys pour money into engine development on your superbike SV650's and DUC 800's in the lightweight class and i'll still come by you on my diminuitive TZ250. I'm only kidding, good thing my lilttle TZ is only eligible for LW GP. Just my .02. If i could afford two race bikes I'd have an SV or a DUC so i could race all of the LW classes or whatever ULSB classes It was eligible for.
tz schmeeze. :biggrin: Our 675cc SV's were stomping alot of 250s at road america. Our ram air was just too efficient, especially since the 250's no longer have a BIG hp/weight advantage coming out of corners on us. I never realized how fast the bikes I was able to put together were until I put a 150lb rider on them, its nice. :thumb: