Fluid catch pan question

[vanillagorrilla]

Rule 5.2.23 states that all four stroke machines must be equipped with a fluid catch pan of at least 3 quarts capacity for the purposes of crankcase oil retention.  That much I understand.  What I'm stuck on is how to accomplish this on my KTM?  I'd like to race my 625SMC in ultra lw superbke (because I think that's the only class I'd have a chance in hell).  Anyone have any suggestions?  I'm pretty sure there's nothing available commercially, so I'm guessing I'll have to make one, and then mount it "in a workman like manner".

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated...

[Jeff]

I've seen people use turkey pans until they could get something made.  I have seen a few fiberglass ones which looked quite similar to some I've seen on buells.

[Eric Kelcher]

Yep you are on the right path, seen dirtbike/ATV fenders used, aluminum pans constructed/welded to meet the requirements, seen lowers from other machines modified to fit.

One point on Turkey pan you need a heavy duty one; not a disposable aluminum foil one. for metal pans bolted is about the only way to atttach them zip ties are not good the metal edge cuts through the zip tie.

[EX_#76]

you might be able to start with something like this

http://www.whaccessories.com/GSGBellyPanSV650-S.jpg

and modify it to fit


I have also used a normal race lower (preferably one that has been crashed) and used aluminum straps to bolt it on the bike.

[vanillagorrilla]

Thanks for the input guys, I think I've got enough ideas now that I can either make one or buy something suitable.

[Team_Serpent]

I have a 03-05 R6 lower in decent condition, it dose have a crack at the top where it meets the upper but you'll probably be cutting it down to size anyway.  It maybe a little long so you may have to cut a section out and reglass.

I'm in the Chicagoland area so if your nearby you can pick it up - it's your's free.

[vanillagorrilla]

Yeah I'm close to you - Kenosha. 

I might just take you up on that.  What's your schedule like this weekend?

[Ducmarc]

if serper's doesn't work try airtech bodywork

[roadracer162]

There are specific belly pan out there for the Motards or dirt bikes. I think maybe try Motojunkie.com. I know that Tony Diaz has a carbon fiber pan that he uses.

Mark

[Team_Serpent]

Sorry, don't vist the board much on the weekend.  I'll PM my number so we can talk.

[G-reg]

I've got a carbon fiber one on my 525, got it off of ebay..

This auction ended a couple days ago but at least its got the contact info.. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KTM-HON-SMJ-CARBON-FIBER-SUPERMOTO-BELLY-PAN-WERA_W0QQitemZ220126348770QQihZ012QQcategoryZ34284QQcmdZViewItem

[Team_Serpent]

I've got a carbon fiber one on my 525, got it off of ebay..

This auction ended a couple days ago but at least its got the contact info.. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KTM-HON-SMJ-CARBON-FIBER-SUPERMOTO-BELLY-PAN-WERA_W0QQitemZ220126348770QQihZ012QQcategoryZ34284QQcmdZViewItem

That is nice, and for the price well worth it. Lot less hassle than spending the time to modify or make something up.

[SVbadguy]

This one on my DR650 started as a plastic container that I fiberglassed over.  Eventually I wore off the corners and reglassed it into the present shape.

[banda]

I'm going to tag along on this question, as I am also a Supermoto racer making the leap to CCS Amateur racing:

I have the Nice Carbon belly pan that G-reg pointed out. It is nicely made, holds about 50% more fluid than a YZ crankcase does, and comes with sponges fixed to the interior to prevent sloshing of the contents should the unspeakable happen.

It also has four neatly engineered mount points - plastic loops on the interior held on with large rivets through the pan itself. The manufacturer suggests attaching the belly pan to the lower frame tubes with zip ties. This works neatly, allows the pan to be fitted snugly, and seems very secure.

However:

CCS 2007 rules state:
5.2.23 All 4-stroke machines must be equipped with a fluid catch pan of sufficient size and heat-resistant material to contain the contents of the crankcases in the event of an engine or crankcase failure. Minimum capacity of the fluid catch pan is to be 3 quarts...
D. All fluid catch pans must be mounted in a safe and workman-like manner. (Zip-ties and duct tape do not qualify as safe and workman-like mounting.)

Apparently zip ties are not workman-like enough.

So my question is: Will tech inspectors have enough common sense to see that in this case zip ties are an elegant and workman like solution? Or will I have to do something stupid like try to snug my pan up with safety wire or hose clamps?

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Well you could try zip ties  (heavy duty ones) and safety wire backup combo.

[banda]

Well you could try zip ties  (heavy duty ones) and safety wire backup combo.

Thanks, dude - that's a pretty sensible suggestion that hadn't crossed my mind - adding a loop of safety wire at each mount point in addition to the zip ties.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Even though I would see about making a back up mounting bracket in case tech says no. (ie bring some sheet metal, snips, bolts and nuts to fab some if needed).

[Burt Munro]

Well you could try zip ties  (heavy duty ones) and safety wire backup combo.

And this is why it's a good idea for you to keep driving the Crash Truck Rob!!   

Unless you and Jan have a conspiracy in place to get as much use as possible out of his Go-Go Gadget ATV!!!   

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

And this is why it's a good idea for you to keep driving the Crash Truck Rob!!   

Unless you and Jan have a conspiracy in place to get as much use as possible out of his Go-Go Gadget ATV!!!  

No its to help keep you problem tech children's attention.

[banda]

Ok. Give it to me straight, since I apparently don't understand:

What is it about zip ties that makes them unsafe or un workman-like? Do they fail routinely? Would four of them not support the weight of two quarts of oil? What is it?

[Burt Munro]

The issue with the zip ties is that they're not as durable as if you have something bolted in place.  You wouldn't believe what some people try to pass off as 'securely fastened.'

What region do you race in?  Since I work Tech at Midwest races I can't speak for how it would be viewed by Tech in other regions.  Even though we all work from the same rulebook, there may be some variance as to the degree of acceptability from region to region based on the experiences of each Tech crew.

[banda]

I'm guilty here of creating a lot of hubub over what is probably nothing - I'm not planning to race any CCS sanctioned events this year. Instead, I'm going to enter a couple Midwest Cafe Racers Association challenge races in their GT Lights class as an adjunct to the amateur supermoto and TT racing I already do.

The MCRA challenge series uses the CCS rulebook, and requires CCS licensing for its entrants. I expect that MCRA club members will do the scrutineering.

Anyway, the way I see it, I would have to use fresh zip ties for every event because the belly pan has to be removed in order to verify the drain plug is safety wired. Even if that weren't so, these MX'ers need the oil changed after every race day - dry sump, what what.

This belly pan from Nice Carbon is really a nice piece - it fits so snugly around the lower frame rails that NOT using zip ties would mean having to either hang the pan two inches lower, or it would mean rigging something complicated and suspect.

I have a feeling that a tech inspector looking at, tugging at the belly pan installed would a) not recognize that zip ties were the method of attachment (because the mount points are IN the belly pan, not at its edges) and would b) be impressed with the secureness with which it is attached.

I will follow your recommendations - offering to supplement the attachment with safety wire, and having enough additional hardware to rig additional supports.

Thanks guys.