Rules proposal - 3.4.2 - For 2008 REV 4/03/07

Started by Super Dave, March 28, 2007, 09:09:54 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Gixxerblade

I think it is a silly idea because I like starting at the front and there will be no way that I will ever have enough points to start there. Hell half the time I get the holeshot which in itself makes my weekend. I really don't care either way. I guess I can get the holeshot from the rear too. :D

PJ

I would totally support this suggested rule change. I suspect anyone who has had to thread the needle, take risks and otherwise dodge slower pre-entered riders to get to the front right off the start would agree.
Paul James
AMA Pro XR1200 #70
www.facebook.com/jamesgangracing
www.twitter.com/jamesgangracing

ahastings

I agree 100% Dave. . I have formally submitted a proposal to CCS to grid by points for the last 2 years with no response.
Arnie
A&M Motorsports
Mid-Atlantic VP Fuel Vendor

Jason748

CCS MW/GP #82 am
CRA #82 am
07 CBR600RR
Two Brothers Powersports, Lithium Motorsports, RoadRacePrep.com

Ridgeway

I think gridding pre-entries by points and post entries by order of entry as Dave has specified is a good compromise.  Assuming technical / computer issues are a thing of the past, I don't see any reason not to do this.

If you want to be gridded by points, you still need to pre-register, so CCS still gets their money and has some idea what their event attendence will be.

If you gridded pre AND post entries by points, I could see a risk of losing a lot of money on rainy days etc. when people might choose not to show up.

I think the rule change is ideal.  I think that the total number of pre-entries could actually increase with these terms, they'd just tend to be near-event pre-entries, vs. several months in advance.
CCS Midwest EX #18
07 GSX-R600
03 SV650s

rwracer

Quote from: Super Dave on March 28, 2007, 09:09:54 AM
Proposal

Proposed Rule Change

3.4.2 CCS Series Gridding Procedures
A. Unless otherwise stated, riders will be gridded pre entered riders first by most current regional class points standings, post entered riders by order of entry.  If a rider has points in multiple regions, the highest point standing will be used.  (Note:  CCS affiliates may use different grid order procedures.  Check with the local organization for specific information on gridding.)
     i.  Riders will be gridded for opening regional events by order of entry.



Note the part in Bold in Section A.  This condition presumes that the race schedules are effectively the same in all regions as otherwise it introduces a clear bias in the rules (should an SE rider get gridded ahead of an MA rider in an MA race just because his season started sooner, or vice-versa toward the end of the season just because MA has more races?)  It's not about arbitrating the bias but rather avoiding it all together.

If you must have this condition then I would suggest adding that the points used for gridding come only from the region where the race is being held.  May not seem fair but overall it's less biased than the alternative.

Thoughts?

Super Dave

I think I have it covered, so I'll elaborate.

Grids would be based on point standings, not points.  So, were talking first, second, third in a region, not who's got the most points.  Similar to ROC.  Champions first, first loosers second, etc.

Super Dave

Team_Serpent

This is probably the best solution I've heard on this subject.  As Ridgeway said - it may even increase pre-entry numbers.

I agree changing - "If a rider has points in multiple regions, the highest point standing will be used". To something more along the lines of Dave's new post would be best.

For example if it is a MW & GP combined event and both points leaders from those regions pre-entered they would get the first two grid spots by random computer selection.

Not sure how you would handle a pre-entered points leader from say the SE region at a MW & GP combined event though.  Doesn't seem like they should get the third spot on the grid since it's not their region but can't think of a solution to this right off.  The only reason I bring it up is because this scenario could happen at a Suzuki, Yamaha, or Kawasaki paying event. 


Super Dave

I agree on that.  I left some of the wording a bit vague on my first writing because I didn't know exactly how to put it together.

In many ways, I wouldn't complain if a top rated rider from the SE showed up at a MW event and got a good grid.  But I haven't decided if it was "fair", and I'm using the quotes because I feel it could go either way.

Whether this would be adopted by LRRS, Florida Region, ASMA, or Trackaddix, I don't know.  So, while if this was adopted by CCS, there is no saying that other "owned" CCS regions would go by those rules for combined events.

Still, it might help CCS owned regions.
Super Dave

Super Dave

Please note, I'm not sure if I made it clear, I have left an opening for problems with getting the current points.  Sometimes, CCS is beholden to getting points from regions.  Might be a personel problem, software, protests, etc.  So, I stated "most current regional" standings.  Yes, some keep their own points, but CCS points are the official points.  Some events are very close together, and while everyone tries to get everything done in a reasonable fashion, sometimes they can't get done. 

CCS should have that "out" allowed to them.  Yeah, the grids might not be based on the exact standings of the previous event, but they would still be based on the "most current regional standings."

Am I making sense?
Super Dave

JBraun

#22
Quote from: Team_Serpent on April 03, 2007, 12:42:35 PM
The only reason I bring it up is because this scenario could happen at a Suzuki, Yamaha, or Kawasaki paying event. 


This is a very important point, and one I can't think of a solution to.
If a Jensen or Wood comes to a CCS weekend to make their living it's hard to grid them at the back.

Yes they're fast and should be able to make it to the front, but there are some fast locals also. (I believe Farrell and Hall both beat Denning @ Blackhawk last year.)

Good grid positions could mean a lot to those guys, it's how they pay the bills.

ASRA/CCS MW #29
Lithium Motorsports
Suspension Solutions
PIRELLI

Addicted2Danger

I think its a great idea Dave.  This is not a topic where you can make everybody happy, but I think this is the best idea I've seen yet.  I havent pre-registered for any events this year, but I still think the only fair way to implement a change like this would be to wait until the 2008 season.