Hey Gus! Re: new number display requirement.

Started by mq105, January 26, 2009, 08:17:19 PM

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mq105

Regarding this thread:  http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,22201.0.html

Gus, what you've said is correct: The line of though that begat the rule is incomplete, and the rule doesn't completely solve the problem it is meant to.

You make a valid point that requiring the side numbers only with a single tail number doesn't seem to make sense. On many modern bikes like yours, it doesn't. This is because the tail on your bike doesn't really have sides, it has a top.

The bottom line in this discussion is numbers need to be visible as viewed from the side. (And front, but that is a separate matter.) So, why the rule that addresses only part of this issue? I think this stems from when bikes used actual number plates, which were vertical (or nearly so) with respect to the bike, and visible from the side. When numbers were first placed on the tail, tails had "sides," (even as the angle of the sides tilted away from vertical) and the numbers were still visible from the side. Consequently, the requirement for side numbers is assumed to be met when two sets of numbers are used on the tail, one set on each "side."

Tails have changed over the years in size and shape. Fast forward to today, when many tails are quite small, and more horizontal than vertical. A tail may no longer have a "side." Numbers on the tail are on "top" of it, and can't be seen well (or at all) by an observer from the side unless that observer is significantly above the level of the bike. This rule was made to address that problem, but does not mandate side fairing numbers if two sets of numbers are used on the tail because it is assumed that the requirement for side numbers has been met, even though it may not actually. With only one set of numbers on the tail, there is no assumption, and there is where the disconnect in the rule comes from.

Rules evolve, and do not always keep pace with development. I think that is what has happened in this case. Keep in mind that writing coherent, enforceable rules is very difficult. It will take a little time, but this will get sorted.
MQ 
FL  #283

roadracer162

5.3.5 Painted displays or separate plates.
B. Side displays may be painted on rear body work only if that body
work presents a basically flat surface of adequate area. Otherwise, a
10 by 12 plate must be mounted. The side plate must be mounted on
the seat or tail section and to the rear of the rider. Mounting must be
high enough to insure that the number is clearly visible when the
machine is leaned (cornering) without interference caused by rider
extremities or machine parts.
(1.) If the tail section profile does not allow the machine to comply with
Section 5.3.5.B, the side number displays MAY be placed on the side of
the fairing in front of the rider as long as the number displays are clearly
visible while the rider is in the racing position If the rider chooses to
place the side number display on the fairing, a single number display on
the top of the tail section must also be installed and orientated to be read
from the rear of the machine..

Seems pretty good to me. add on plates if you don't have an adequate tail or put some on the side fairing. If you don't have a bike with a proper tail, then buy a bike with the proper tail. Racing rules go for everyone.
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

Burt Munro

Founding member of the 10,000+ smite club.  Ask me how you can join!

dylanfan53

Don Cook
CCS #53

skiandclimb

So, maybe I'm reading too far into this, but it seems that the new verbage says that if your tail is not mostly flat on the sides, then you can run the numbers on your side fairings, and you MAY (not required?) run a single number on the top of the tail???

Am I reading this correctly.....if you run them on the side fairings, you don't need to run them on the tail section at all?

Sheesh, we need a lawyer here to sort out the wording! :)
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

Burt Munro

2 options:

A: Display 2 numbers on the tail section
B: Display a single number plate on the top of the tail section and you must also display number plates on each side fairing below the gas tank.
Founding member of the 10,000+ smite club.  Ask me how you can join!

skipper08

Quote from: Burt Munro on January 29, 2009, 02:29:37 AM
2 options:

A: Display 2 numbers on the tail section
B: Display a single number plate on the top of the tail section and you must also display number plates on each side fairing below the gas tank.

thats the rule!
Gus Sanchez
CCS EX #300 & ASRA #300

skiandclimb

C: On every alternate Thursday, in the month of June, IF Jupiter is aligned with the Earth's moon, and ONLY if the bike is fielded in an AM event, AND there are no more than 5 bikes gridded, UNLESS those bikes are all purple in color....then the second to last rider in that point standing shall have the choice to place his number on the top portion of his bike's tank, IF the tank is "mostly" mounted in an obtuse triangle shape, UNLESS the tank is curved in over 72.9% of itsOEM shape.

There. Thats my personal ammendment to this number thing. By all accounts, this should clear up any misconceptions. LOL
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

skipper08

Quote from: skiandclimb on January 29, 2009, 09:25:42 PM
C: On every alternate Thursday, in the month of June, IF Jupiter is aligned with the Earth's moon, and ONLY if the bike is fielded in an AM event, AND there are no more than 5 bikes gridded, UNLESS those bikes are all purple in color....then the second to last rider in that point standing shall have the choice to place his number on the top portion of his bike's tank, IF the tank is "mostly" mounted in an obtuse triangle shape, UNLESS the tank is curved in over 72.9% of itsOEM shape.

There. Thats my personal ammendment to this number thing. By all accounts, this should clear up any misconceptions. LOL



:lmao:
Gus Sanchez
CCS EX #300 & ASRA #300

Fast4fun

Not to belabor (one up on begat) the point but if I run one number on the tail, two on the sides of the fairing then do I also need to place at least one on the front of the bike? Or, IF I run with two on the front of the bike that are somewhat side facing, can I then run one on the rear?
CCS Mid West EX #675
Tri 675

Burt Munro

Holy moly........ the first couple of races are going to be fun in Tech this year!!!!!

BackMARKr- set me up with about 5 or 6 dozen sets of numbers I can sell - I'll make a killing!

Maybe I can extrapolate (that was for Don Cook's benefit!) an answer for you......

Option A:  1 number plate on the nose, 2 number plates on the tail.
-or-
Option B:  1 number plate on the nose, 2 number plates on the side fairing below the tank and 1 number plate on the top of the tail section that can be read (and is legible) when standing behind the bike, i.e., numbers facing rearwards.

In either Option A or B you may display 2 number plates on the sides of the nose of the bike if the fairing/wind screen/air intake provides a limited amount of space.   

HOWEVER,   if you choose to run two number plates on the nose you must remove or cover over the number plate on the side that is away from where the scorers are located.
EXAMPLE -
Scoring tower on the right (Blackhawk) cover up or remove the number plate on the left.
Scoring tower on the left (Barber, Daytona, Mid-Ohio, Topeka, Road America, Gingerman, Gateway, Mid-America) cover up or remove the number plate on the right.

AND.......  for those of you who can't figure out which side of the bike is the left and which side is the right........ the left side has the little clutch handle thingy and the right side has the twisty grip thingy that makes the motor louder (I won't say makes the bike go faster because for some of you that's not always the case!!!!)

Does that help?

Gus will be along shortly to provide a translation in Spanish, Super Dave will provide a translation in Wisconsinese, Simon in Polish and Vas will be along shortly to provide a translation in Urdu or something????  Still looking for translation volunteers for Russian and Macedonian!
Founding member of the 10,000+ smite club.  Ask me how you can join!

roadracer162

Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

skiandclimb

In keeping this "U.N. Friendly" I'll take the German part of the translation. Sehr Gut, nein?
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

Garywc

i still think bikes should all be a different color with no numbers
crayola has 64 colors when was the last time there was more then 64 bikes in a race?
CCS/ASRA #77
AMA #776
http://www.eastcoastsupertwins.com
Monmouth Cycles,Woodcraft, bel-ray,AXO

Burt Munro

Quote from: Garywc on February 10, 2009, 02:20:17 PM
i still think bikes should all be a different color with no numbers
crayola has 64 colors when was the last time there was more then 64 bikes in a race?

This would get us up to 80.......



Maybe we should come out with a braille version for the colorblind!
Founding member of the 10,000+ smite club.  Ask me how you can join!

P_M

OK.. I can translate to Bajan.. and if I can find one done already, maybe I can supply a 'Visual' turorial.. Uh.. anyone in the DC area already have the numbers on that I can shoot?? 

Just trying to be helpful...
Ok, so I'm faster with my camera then you are with your bike..

Black Cowboy Hats - Keep the sun off my neck.
Nikon (because I use the best)
RnR Cycles - Great folks, great service
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Photographing the Racing because I love the Sport and you folks ROCK!

dylanfan53

#16
Quote from: Burt Munro on February 10, 2009, 02:48:31 PM
Maybe we should come out with a braille version for the colorblind!
That's very insensitive to the visually impaired who might be reading this...
Don Cook
CCS #53

skiandclimb

With my luck, I'd end up drawing the short straw and have to run "Goldenrod" or some shit....
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

tstruyk

Dont try to save money on that "goldenrod" by painting your entire bike that color, you will no doubt be disqualified... although a "shade" of yellow, it is in no way, shape, or form, "Official CCS Yella"   :ahhh:

just lookin out for ya bro!   ::)
CCS GP/ASRA  #85
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skiandclimb

Quote from: tstruyk on February 11, 2009, 07:36:57 AM
Dont try to save money on that "goldenrod" by painting your entire bike that color, you will no doubt be disqualified... although a "shade" of yellow, it is in no way, shape, or form, "Official CCS Yella"   :ahhh:

just lookin out for ya bro!   ::)

LMAO! Man, don't start the shade of yellow stuff.....the smites will be a flyin'!!!

Hmmm....do you think RRP has Goldenrod in stock?
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

backMARKr

Quote from: skiandclimb on February 11, 2009, 09:03:47 PM
LMAO! Man, don't start the shade of yellow stuff.....the smites will be a flyin'!!!

Hmmm....do you think RRP has Goldenrod in stock?

We have EVERYTHING in stock..... :biggrin:
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