New (maybe) racer questions

[vanillagorrilla]

I've been racing mini's (Derbi GPR, NSR50) for 3 years, and I now I'd like to try an SV.  I was hoping the assembled masses could answer some nagging questions for me:

How much can I expect to spend at a race weekend?
Does an SV650 truly need new tires every race?
Whats the best class for a newbie?  (I haven't bought the SV yet)
I will do some track days before coming out to race, but what else can I do to get ready?  I have 10 years street experience and the 3 years mini racing.

[Jeff]

How much can I expect to spend at a race weekend?

Double whatever you budget.  It just works out that way...

Plan on $155 to run 3 classes, $25/pp for the gate, $25 for fuel, $50+/pp for food, plus transportation, etc.

Does an SV650 truly need new tires every race?

I don't own an SV, but I'd HIGHLY doubt that anyone would recommend new tires every race.  I don't think our national champions that run SV's are changing every race.  SV's are light on tires, so you should be able to get several weekends out of a set.  Especially at the AM level.

Whats the best class for a newbie?  (I haven't bought the SV yet)

The lightweight stuff would be where I would recommend...

I will do some track days before coming out to race, but what else can I do to get ready?  I have 10 years street experience and the 3 years mini racing.

Buy spares.  Start working out.  Save $$

[Steviebee]

the best advice i can give ya.

Come to the track on a race weekend, spend the weekend if you can.

Go find some guy racing the bikes your interested in and talk to them.  Were gennerally very helpfull as long as it isnt 5 minutes before a race.

Most of the time were just sitting around bench racing, so you'll beable to see what mods were done to the bikes, what equipment the guys are using etc. etc.   Also theres sometimes people selling bikes, so you might get an idea of some costs for a preped race bike.

[gpstar1]

I would say start with the SV, that would be your best choice. Tires, you can go through an entire weekend on the same set of tires including practice on sat and sunday. Money, well its racing so its gonig to cost you anywhere from 150 to 250. Classes, I run GT Lights, LW Superbike, LW Grand Prix, and Thunderbike. You could also run LW Supersport (depending on the cc's of your SV) or super twins.

When you do decide to race have fun and stay relaxed, everything will come to you in due time.

[tshort]

I ran a fairly stock SV my first amateur season - did 14 weekends, 66 races.  Here's what my spreadsheet shows:

$886= [entryfees(4sprint races+1 GTrace)+tires+race fuel+gas for race transport+food for 2+hotel room]/weekend.

Tires last 1.5 weekends (roughly); and run 2-3 practices, in addition to races.

ADD: crash damage repairs (crashing sucks), initial bike cost, end of year bike mods/rebuilds

ADD: about $100 per weekend MORE if you go to Daytona ROC (ie, my average was actually $939 per weekend with ROC in there)

Subtract: contingency money, GT winnings.

Sitting on a pile of wood and thinking about how much fun we had:  PRICELESS.

[Super Dave]

Subtract: contingency money, GT winnings.

Keep up with current events.  No GT winnings anymore.  Only Unlimited GP.

[vanillagorrilla]

Holy crap Tshort!  Are you saying 850 per weekend?  My god, I had no idea how comparatively cheap racing a mini is.  2 sets of tires get you through a season, no race fuel needed, etc.  Is a bunch of that money tied to the hotel, or is most of that actual race money?

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Race money.  Most of us camp.  In 2002, I spent approx. 20K to run every race in the MW, GL, GP regions, and finished up the year at Daytona.  That would be about 15 weekends.
I ran three races per weekend.  There were times I was running other people's takeoff tires, and lots of times I was beyond the lifespan of the tires I was racing on and praying as I slid.  That figure includes crash damage and 2 motor rebuilds, which I was able to do myself from mostly used parts.
Yeah.  A 20K shoestring budget!
Travel and tires are your biggest expenses, followed by entry fees.

[vanillagorrilla]

Wow.  I honestly had no idea it was that expensive.  I figured I could do it on 2-3 hondo a weekend.  I live close to BHF and RA, so travel expenses would be cheap, but still.  Is LW on an SV the cheapest option?  Should I be looking at vintage or something different?  How do all you guys make this happen?  You can't all be independently wealthy.... does contingency take a sizeable chunck out of it?  How high do you have to place to get a reasonable amount?

BTW, thanks for all the advice.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

$110 just to buy a license for the year.  Gate fee and 3 races will eat up close to $200, more at Road A.  A set of tires is what, $350?  Those will last 2 weekends on an SV.  Add travel, food, & beer.  It gets more expensive when you're trying to win.
I did it by working two jobs for a total of 13 hours per day, buying, fixing and reselling bikes, and selling off every toy I'd ever purchased that didn't get me around a racetrack.  Then in my spare time I maintained the bike.  I used to love racetrack camping, because if my bike wasn't in pieces, it was the only time all week I'd get any real sleep!
Crack addicts tell similar stories....

[Ridgeway]

I spent around $500 per weekend not counting tires running 5 classes per weekend on my SV last year.  I cheaped out on tires and did 5 weekends on 2 sets of Pilot Power street tires which ran me somewhere around $220 per set, mounted and balanced myself.

No race gas, no lodging fees, (either camped or drove home at night).  Currently have about 10k into the bike including purchase, Supersport prep/mods, and some (but not many) spares.

Going with new race tires at least every other weekend, spare rims, and a set of rains this year, so my costs will be increasing.  Price of progress.

[dicatirider944]

Crack addicts tell similar stories....

Road racing is legal though!! ;D

I budget $900 a weekend for Fuel for the truck, gas for the bike, food, tires, entry fees and it is pretty close.  

I don't want to figure real number because if I did I would have to include deductibles from insurance companies, cost of 5th wheel toyhauler, spares, new helmets.  Actually lets stop talking about costs and start thinking about how much fun we are all going to have this year at the track! ;D

[Jeff]

It depends on the level of competition you want to run and maintain.

If you're out to have fun and really don't care what you race or where you finish, you can do it for a couple hundred bucks a weekend.

If you want to be competitive in MW/HW/UL classes, $2-3K (yes, $2000 - $3000) per weekend is very realistic.

Figure in crash damage, food, transportation, gear that wears out and needs replacing, bike wear parts (chain, gearing, brakes, etc).

It's ungodly expensive.  (and that's not including initial purchases of bike, tools, gear, trailer, vehicle)

Between my expense and what my sponsors/advertisers contribute, I go through around $22-25k per season.  A Dan Ortega, Dan Doty, Jeff Purk or Andy Feursthaler could realistically 1.5x - double that I'm sure.

But here's the deal that I tell people...  Look at someone who golfs with as much passion as I put into racing.  They're dropping just as much in country club fees, equipment and a few trips to those ultimate courses per year.

I don't hunt, fish, drink, bowl, golf, ski, go to movies...  I race...  For me it's more of a lifestyle than a sport.

And my favorite quote on this is by Peter Egan:
"Racing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague wish for something salty"

The next time you're at the track, take a look around and start considering the cost of EVERYTHING you see in a paddock.  There are people rolling in with half a million dollars worth of RV/Trailer/Bike/Tools/Canopy/Gear/Etc...  And the number of those people are growing every year...

Used to be that people rolled in with vans or pickups and camped in tents.  Now I'm betting that RV's, toy haulers, 5th wheels etc will have to park in designated sections at BHF because they're taking up too much space.

Where does all the money come from?  Well, probably the bank.  But my guess is that many people live like they're poor so they can race like they're loaded...

[Super Dave]

If you want to be competitive in MW/HW/UL classes, $2-3K (yes, $2000 - $3000) per weekend is very realistic.

I don't spend that kind of money.

Rear tires wear more than fronts.  I can usually do three rears to one front.  Then I can still use the rears for schools or some practice.  I know that I've worked with teams that endurance raced an SV, and they'd use the front tire for three events...CCS Team Challenges.  Even used a rear twice.  

Vintage bikes are not cheap.  They have issues, and you have to focus on riding something that has issues.  Sometimes you can only push as much as the chassis will let you.  Sometimes, it will spit you off...but, I guess, it depends upon what you're calling vintage.

[tshort]

Keep up with current events.  No GT winnings anymore.  Only Unlimited GP.

Well excuuuuuuuse me.  But if you'd read *my* post, you would have seen that I was basing it on my actuals, not budget for coming years. :P

Before I got into this I read a lot of posts on this same topic, and couldn't believe how guys were justing tossing around numbers - "allow $500 per weekend and you should be fine."  Then arguments would break out on the board.  Unbelieveable.

Always made me wonder how they could argue about historic fact? ::)  That's why I put my actuals in.  And btw, my numbers don't reflect contingency/GT payouts, I just mentioned it so that the guy could decide for himself how much he might want to allow for those - which would require doing more research, which would lead him to the conclusion that GT don't pay no mo.

[tshort]

Oh, and one more thing...as a racer once said:

"Roadracing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague desire for something salty."  

Be realistic about what you're willing to spend, and where you're going to get it from.  Then pull the trigger and don't look back.  Most fun you can have with your clothes on, I reckon.

[tshort]

Holy crap Tshort!  Are you saying 850 per weekend?  My god, I had no idea how comparatively cheap racing a mini is.  2 sets of tires get you through a season, no race fuel needed, etc.  Is a bunch of that money tied to the hotel, or is most of that actual race money?

We spent a good bit - $2300 -  on hotels; and about the same on food and gas for transport.  Food was probably 1/2 to 2/3 of the second $2300.  

So if you only raced locally, and didn't buy food, you could probably get away with just entry fees and tires - which would come to $629 per weekend, based on my actuals (five races per weekend).  If you eliminate race gas, you get to $592.  Depends how bad you want to go fast, and how many races you want to enter. If you run three races instead of five you could reduce entry fees by about $70 or $80 per weekend (I'm sure SD will have the exact number here).  This would also stretch your tires out - I was getting two weekends from a front, and one from a rear (pushing this, as I figured out - and was repeatedly told - is penneywise and pound foolish: crashes usually cost more than tires.).

[H-man]

Crack addicts tell similar stories....

ROFL!  ;D