"Backing" it in the corners ! ! !

[MJFRacing]

Anyone know how? I mean really know how  the pro's do it?

I've watched 'em live in person at Road America and have rented tapes and done the whole s l o w motion bit.

It doesn't appear that they're locking the back or spinning it up either. Is it so simple that I'm missing it?!?!

Lastly, if anyone does know this "trick" how do you begin attempting it???

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Eric Kelcher]

couple of methods one is with rear brake other is by downshifting.

Flat track racing or dirt bike is easiest way to learn/practice, I am not any good and gave up after landing on my head too many times

[memo]

It's called riding the wheels off of you motorcycle!  They are just riding the motorcycle so fast it's gonna slide around.  I don't think that they try to.  If anything it slows them down a bit.

[Protein Filled]

The pros tend to do it mostly by dropping the clutch all at once and letting the rear slide out. I believe the easiest way to learn is by doing it on the ice (if you have that option).

Downshift on the entrance to the corner and let the clutch out all at once. If you let it out slowly you will end up highsiding, and if you downshift too much, you will do the same, so it's one of those things that you must thread a fine line to get it right.

[tcchin]

Actually, the pros who choose to slide with the clutch do so by modulating the clutch fairly carefully, as dumping it tends to leave them few options; that would be like having toggle switch instead of a rear brake lever. If you're hard on the front brakes, it takes very little to lock the rear wheel, and engine braking is more than enough to do so. The important thing, as I've been told, is to shift quickly so that the clutch can be re-engaged quickly and then modulated as available traction dictates.

[MightyDuc Racing]

Actually, if you can get a video of Doug Chandler, he uses the clutch to back it in and you can actually see it if you look carefully.  Duhamel uses the clutch and the rear brake.  You can actually hear his rear brake squeak when he uses the thumb brake button he has.  If you just dump the clutch, the back end will hop, as you can see if you go to an amatuer race and watch a less experienced rider overcook a corner.  Just my .02, but I dirt tracked as a kid.  It's a little different on the dirt, but you get used to the bike sliding so you aren't as likely to panic when you do it on the asphalt.

[Super Dave]

Backing it in is a method.  It's not just happening.  

It gets the turning done quicker by allowing more effective lean angle with the rear hung out.  Example, the front wheel is at a 15 degree lean angle, but the back is hung out.  This allows for more effective lean angle.  A rider trying to go the same speed at the same point of the radius that they follow would have to be at a greater overall lean angle.  

Ice or dirt is the easiest way to learn.  Less traction, less stuff to wreck, slower speeds.  

The brake has to be a better way of doing it.  Most of the Superbikes have slipper clutches.  Not sure how that would work with one.  

The trick is that as you're braking in a straight line, the rear wheel is light.  As you turn it in, more weight gets put back on the rear wheel, and you're letting off the front brake...

So, you'll slow the rear wheel to less than the actual ground speed.  You've got to get it to hook up as you turn in, or the back end will come around.

Pretty complicated, but it is learnable...

[cbrf4_269]

Jason Pridmore showed us how it is done and it is done with the clutch.  He does not teach this method but he will show you if you ask.  

[Super Dave]

Kipp used the clutch too.  His method was to pull in the clutch, shift all his gears, then let out the clutch.  Lots of drive line lash.  There was a period where he was destroying transmissions doing this.  

But you've got to learn the technique.  Go get an XR100 or a TTR125 and go out on the ice...

Sorry, this one is exclusive to where it's cold...LOL!

Of course, you can go out and do it in the back yard...

[jim_p]

I realy want to do this too, not because I think I will go faster but just for track days,etc.. If Super Dave can teach me this I will go to his class,let me know.
Thanks

[Super Dave]

I really don't use it myself.  I'm traditional in that I use the front brake going in.  Best thing to do would be to get a little dirt bike and start playing on it.  

In a certain way, it does potentially require a different geometry set up.

It looks cool, but is it really necessary?  That has to be your first question.  Then, if you make a mistake, are you prepared to toss away your road racer doing it?  A nice TTR125 or and XR100 would be easier to experiment on.  

[tzracer]

I agree with Dave. I think it has to do with what you are used to. Nicky H grew up as a dirt tracker and is used to backing it in. For him it may be faster. He also has the advantage (as do most top level riders) of having a slipper clutch. I also use mostly front brake, but I have spent most of my career on a 250.

Interstingly, Nicky noted after being at a MotoGP race that the riders did not back it in. They set up their slipper clutches differently, to gain entry speed, not to back it in. I am interested to see if Nicky sets up his bike to back it in or if he will change his riding style.