is it wrong

[Apriliapilot]

Hanging out the other eve with some racers of varying ages, the question of why you race and what you are trying to accomplish when you are came up. Some of the younger 20somethings winning and perhaps going pro, making a living was their goal, some  30 somethings it was more of  a exciting thing to do maybe "professional hobby" kind of thing, like their approach to it was  very professional but they were in it for mainly enjoyment self pride kind of thing. it seems that winning and spending lots of money to do it wasn't  paramount, the younger guys didn't really get it, feeling that if you weren't trying to win then why race?  so my question is, is it wrong just to race because you can and for fun? is that not the reason for groups like ccs and others?

[truckstop]

Some people like gardening, some people like to wander casinos and gamble, other people think sitting in some grandstands, drinking, and watching a bunch of guys throw/hit a ball or beat the crap out of each other is a good time...

We like to ride motorbikes on racetracks. Sometimes it's for fun, sometimes it's to teach, and sometimes it's to put our skills up against other people in a race. To each their own.

We're old though, and have no delusions of making a living at it.

[danch]

When I was 20-ish, I was putting all my energy into being the best in my field. Now I can afford (in more ways than one) to do things that I suck at.

[f3racer]

im in it for both. i grew up watching my father and uncle race. this has been my dream since i was a little boy. the reason i joined the army. i want the satifaction of racing but damn would i love to be able to make a living doing it.

[DEVINC]

i wanna get very fast obviously. a goal is maybe one day to just be in the back of the field at an ama event. but for now just have fun and learn alot and, sure, have a little pride in myself

[Jeff]

I don't see that either viewpoint is bad.  

I raced for 7 seasons, and managed to do so because I said that I'd rather race 3 classes per weekend and race an entire season than race 10 classes per weekend and only race 3 weekends a year or 1 season in my life.

I always raced to win.  I did everything I could to get faster/better.  HOWEVER, I knew I had to go to work on Monday so there were risks I would not take.  And when I made a dick-move, I was VERY cognizant that I put myself and another rider/riders at risk, and I apologized for such.  

One of the reasons I did end up 'retiring' was because I knew it would never be anything more than an expensive hobby, and that I would never be satisfied running old equipment and being 'status-quo'.  I would ALWAYS do something to go faster, and you get to a point where a tenth of a second can cost several thousands of dollars.  EVERYTHING goes up when you're pushing the edge of the envelope, the risk, the reward.  But it got to a point that I just didn't find it worth it to me anymore.

I enjoyed it immensely, and it's a part of my life that I wouldn't trade for the world.  But it's something I'm past now...  Others have different views, and I don't see anything wrong with any of them...

(err, let me take that back...  I see something wholly wrong with people who have NO money or insurance wadding themselves up on the track and burdening everyone around them for the rest of their lives...  That's totally effed up in my opinion...  But that's not a rant I should even begin...)

[f3racer]

(err, let me take that back...  I see something wholly wrong with people who have NO money or insurance wadding themselves up on the track and burdening everyone around them for the rest of their lives...  That's totally effed up in my opinion...  But that's not a rant I should even begin...)

this is the great thing about the army. no matter if im hurt or not i get paid. i have fantastic insurance---free insurance.

[Super Dave]

this is the great thing about the army. no matter if im hurt or not i get paid. i have fantastic insurance---free insurance.

Free for you...only if you don't value your life or the work that others have to put in to ensure that you're paid and taken care of at part of the US military.

I'm sure you haven't forgotten.

[Apriliapilot]

wow,really cool answers

[skiandclimb]

I am 34 years old.  Got into CCS racing at 19, and ran a few races for a few years. Got out and became an "adult".  Played on the street for a long time, then got back into track days, which, of course, lead to getting back into CCS events. I guess what I am saying is I've seen both sides.  Back as a kid, I had a ton of drive, and wanted to do nothing but go faster and faster.  And like every "kid" I wanted to be the next Wayne Rainey/ Kevin Schwantz.

As an adult doing it, I care less about getting faster, and focus more on smoothness and technique. I find that the track side comradery is more important to me than just the race by itself.  I suppose all of this can be contributed to growing up, but if you ask anyone who knows me...that is still an elusive realm I have yet to discover! lol

The thing about your post that really rang a bell with me, was how- after all the years I was away from racing, that so little has changed.....besides the bikes, of course! 

Basically, there is still the same enigma going on in club racing.....perhaps a dichotemy...maybe an enigma wrapped up in a dichotemy of a conundrum....but I digress.   One camp in the mindset of club racers (hard core, younger racers) tend not to like the "sometimers".  The ones who are so dedicated they put every last dime into racing, and appear, at times, to get offended by those who run a race here and there.  Conversely, the "sometimers" also tend to get a stick up their butts about the "hardcore" group, saying they should chill out, all while giving constant reminders that this is "just club racing".  The reality is that in club racing, neither camp is "right", and neither camp is "wrong".

Club racing encapsulates both camps.  It IS the starting point for the fast young ones, and it IS the comfy spot us older folks enjoy competing in, albeit in a more docile capacity!

I like the conundrum.  I like being on the track and watching a new and upcoming racer blow my old ass off the track!  For me, it's awesome to see our sport keep growing.  I love hanging out with good friends, and after the day is done- cracking a few beers and talking trash.  I love prepping a bike over the winter with my friends....again, while cracking a few beers and talking trash!

Racing is different than most other pursuits in life.  Its funny how those who we battle on track, and curse from our helmets as they pass us, tend to be our closest chums- folks who will do anything to help you out. I love it, and hope I can continue to keep doing it for as long as possible.

Cheers to all of you- racing for whatever your reasons may be.

-Ski

[Cowboy 6]

this is the great thing about the army. no matter if im hurt or not i get paid. i have fantastic insurance---free insurance.

I take it you haven't been shot at, mortar'ed, rocketed, RPG'ed or IED'd yet?

It's not free.

[roadracer162]

I take it you haven't been shot at, motar'ed, rocketed, RPG'ed or IED'd yet?

It's not free.

Hahahahaha...so what are you saying...you pay with your A$$?

Mark

[Apriliapilot]

we said, ski

[barb_arah]

How about racing because you like it?  Making money shouldn't even enter into it. That can be a dangerous driving factor.

[Super Dave]

How about racing because you like it?  Making money shouldn't even enter into it. That can be a dangerous driving factor.

Yeah, but if you make money doing what you like or love, you never work, per se.

[Helmsman]

I will be honest, i thought for awhile i had a chance and could making a living doing it.  Then my first race ended with me going head first into a tire wall, and my 2nd race saw me get lapped, at RA.  Right about then i started to realize that i would never make a living doing this.  I laugh when i think about how i used to think about racing and how good i would be.

Now i race for a bunch of reasons:  To push my self to new personal bests, for fun, and for competition.  I know i will never be anything special in this sport, and i am perfectly ok with that.

[Gap Junkie]

Hahahahaha...so what are you saying...you pay with your A$$?

Mark

Yes that is exactly what Cowboy is saying. Something to do with Iraqi sand!

[Gino230]

This is a great thread.

I never even rode a motorcycle until about 15 years ago, and it took me another 7 or 8 to start racing. Most people who know me outside of racing circles are astonished- it doesn't seem to fit with the rest of my personality or my job or however it is they define people, I guess. I am mostly quiet about my hobby to outsiders, not because I'm modest or I don't like to talk about it, but more because I have never been able to explain why it is I love it so much. Anytime I try, most people just end up writing me off as a thrill-seeker or adreanaline junkie- and we all know racing is so much more than that.

I guess I like the camraderie, the challenge, the constant drive to improve- racing is the ultimate test of your skills on a motorcycle. Even though we bitch and moan about rules, and this or that, there is very little grey area when compared to everyday life. Like the old saying goes, "the bullshit stops when the green flag drops!" It is one of the purest forms of motorsport competition, in my opinion. There is real risk, which makes the rewards even sweeter.

I know I will never be MotoGP champion, but when I started my only desire was to go fast on the track. That turned into the desire to place in a few amateur races. Once I got to the top step of the podium...alot changed. I realized I could win and then it became a drive for a championship. When I became expert alot changed too. So I hope I can keep growing in the same direction, keep improving. Maybe someday I'll even be that backmarker on TV at an AMA race- if I ever hit the lotto, that is...

I know in my heart I don't have the talent or the smarts or even the cajones of some of my fellow competitors- it is my lot in the racing world to be resigned to chipping away at the lap times, a 10th at a time, slowly creeping my way up the time sheets. It's work and can sometimes be tiring. But I also know in my heart I'll never truly give it up. It's like in Fight Club when Ed Norton says "after fight club, everything else in your life got the volume turned down" or something to that effect.

Either way, we are all a breed apart from people who do not race, whether you like to admit it or not. There is a different blood that circulates through the racer's veins, from the guy circulating around on a 10 year old bike, to the fast new guy that sweeps the weekend. There isn't one of us out there that deep down, doesn't dream of winning.

[Ducmarc]

i remember the first time i rode around daytona thinking as slow as i was richard petty wouldn't do this with out a car. now i watch these jokers and think if i had the chance i could rub fenders with them no problem . i've seen what that top stripe looks  like up close

[Ducmarc]

i also know what loose feels like. turn 4 a couple years ago it felt like the back tire was trying to come off the ground must be that cheesee body work  cuz the 748 would not do it.

[GIGOLO]

In the big scheme, everybody needs something to escape.  It just sux that this sport is so expensive.

Racing has a way of filtering out the people that are there for the wrong reasons.  If you are only there to impress others, well that gets old at about the $10k mark.  If you race to fulfill a personal need, you end up being absent after the first or second season.  If you race because you are mentally unstable, you are among friends. Me personally, this year has sucked, big time.  I still look forward to racing at every moment, its really hard not to think about.  I just wish I had started when I was like 12 or so.  Fast like Farrell, or Jensen, or Ortega, thats something a bit different.  Thats not only time in the seat but mostly talent that is hard to come by.  I will never be an A.M.A. champion, but its fun to pretend.

[f3racer]

Free for you...only if you don't value your life or the work that others have to put in to ensure that you're paid and taken care of at part of the US military.

I'm sure you haven't forgotten.

I take it you haven't been shot at, motar'ed, rocketed, RPG'ed or IED'd yet?

It's not free.

Yes that is exactly what Cowboy is saying. Something to do with Iraqi sand!

maybe i should post a picture of my 3rd id combat patch and pictures of any of my 4 deployments to iraq. dont tell me about being shot at mortared, rpg's, ied's, or iraqi sand. or maybe a picture of my purple heart or bronze star w/valor.

[spyderchick]

What I did on my summer vacation. (Many summers ago)

I got my race license at 37.
I was slooooooow.
I had a lot of fun.
I did it for a while, then I quit.
I like racing.

[jigs]

I am 48 years old,and prolly race for the same reason everyone else does.Track days are great,and hopefully I will be able to do them for a long time yet,but racing as you all know gets under your skin.I feel that we are all the same,just at different stages of skill,speed and expierience.Everyone that puts on their lid,goe's out and rides to his or her best.It's the whole expierience of racing that's like nothing else.
     
           I didn't even see a race track until I was 41,thinking my odds were going to catch up with me,scortching the back roads.Needless to say once I did my first track day I was hooked.I raced a little bit in 07',a couple events,did 80% of the season last year,in Yellow plate,and won a Regional Cahmpionship,a Track Championship,came in second and 2 third places in 3 other categories,and of coarse got the bump.

            I knew what I was in for in White Plate,and being realistic,decided to continue racing,just not the whole season, because of my love for the sport,and all the people in and around it.It also (a race weekend)completley disolves my hum drum tic -toc stress of the work world,very medicinal.This year,not only am I one of the slowest(and oldest) Experts,I am even in a personal slump,riding 2-3 seconds of my best pace,but I am still suiting up,and showing up.nobodys watching me,and or expectingmuch out of me,but again,it's my love for this thing we do that keeps me coming back.

             There is a man named Bod Delie,from Depere,that raced 30 years in CCS,retiring the year  before at 67,stll running 15's at BHF,that man loved this sport and did it for that reason,not to win,yes he did ride his best,and was not a danger to himself or others,but his passion the the sport and people here that kept him coming back for 30 years,that's the lesson I look at,that's who I admire.

             Sure,I would love to ride better and faster,sometimes we're up and sometimes were down,kinda like a honeymoon dick,and that's the color and flavor and texture of racing.Do it because you love it,there is no other reason in my book.As soon as I am a danger to myself or others,or I can no longer afford it, I will hang em'up and just do track days and  I will keep coming back,until then.It's OK to not be the fast rider,it's Ok to be a back marker,adversity builds character,and humility is teach-ability,I'm getting my share of both this my first Whitr plate year and loving it.

[catman]

I got involved originally, because after many years of biking and racing "other mechanical toys" ,I couldn't find anything that matched the thrill of snowmobile racing. Also ,I wanted to throw a leg over a streeter that was more highly capable( than most MV registered bikes)  of the BIG grin factor. Here's to club racing and the sport that allows me to say (on track) "I can't believe they are letting me do this"

[Cowboy 6]

maybe i should post a picture of my 3rd id combat patch and pictures of any of my 4 deployments to iraq. dont tell me about being shot at mortared, rpg's, ied's, or iraqi sand. or maybe a picture of my purple heart or bronze star w/valor.

I did  not mean to ruffle your ego. I merely wanted to get a point across. Others got the message:

Free for you...only if you don't value your life or the work that others have to put in to ensure that you're paid and taken care of at part of the US military.

I'm sure you haven't forgotten.

and...

Hahahahaha...so what are you saying...you pay with your A$$?

Mark

Yes that is exactly what Cowboy is saying. Something to do with Iraqi sand!

Thanks for your service. 



To get back on topic....

As long as you aren't 30 seconds off the pace and creating a hazard on the track, it is definitely not wrong to be out there just for the fun and thrill of wheel to wheel action. Go for it!

[chaplain220]

Never found a better group of people in all my life.  No matter what color you are, what language you speak, how ugly things are at work or home, when Sat afternoon at 5pm hits, the final bikes pull off track and the feet kick up on the back tire, everyone becomes genuine and real.  We talk deeper, laugh louder and...really care.  Not that I've given up on winning, I'm secretly pulling Jennings track days at every available opportunity so as to scorch the clearcoat off yer bikes, and shame you into coming to chapel service.  but I have come to love racing, for the racers.  And yeah, it is very cool.  We'll be in some store with the kids, and I'll hear my son talking to his buddies as they happen across a flatscreen with some motogp race on it, and he'll be sayin, "that's what my Dad does."  Of course, I'm thinkin to myself, "Well, not really anywhere even close to as good as that,"  but his buddies all turn and look at me with that, "WOW" expression.  Kinda cool bein a hero to a kid.

[Expat2b]

Great thread! 

I have to admit, I am fascinated at why so many nice people are attracted to a sport that brings such great risk, and the answers like I am reading in this thread are what keeps me coming back as a spectator, photographer, and member of the community...

A little Googling of "basic human needs" resulted in a list of motivations that the club racing experience meets almost 100%...albeit there are variances in levels of maturity to which the sport and the community provides a venue for personal growth. It's no wonder the sport evokes so much passion.

1. The need to give and receive attention
2. Taking heed of the mind and body connection - turning strategies and lessons learned into faster lap times
3. The need for purpose, goals and meaning - if not winning races, then challenging yourself to exceed your personal best
4. A sense of community and making a contribution
5. The need for challenge and creativity
6. The need for intimacy - tying in with the need for attention, is the need to share your personal hopes, dreams and ambitions with someone who is "on your level".
7. The need to feel a sense of control
8. The need for a sense of status recognition
9. The need for a sense of safety and security (hence the heated discussions about incidents, maturity, etc.)

Of course, a little more Googling also came up with this little tidbit:

Cars make the man manly
WE'VE ALL HEARD the stereotype about sports cars: sure, they're fun to drive, but their main function is to help men show off to women. Researchers have now confirmed that men's bodies seem to agree. More than 30 heterosexual men were asked to drive two cars: a 2006 Porsche 911 from an exotic car dealer, and a 1990 Toyota Camry wagon with over 186,000 miles. Testosterone levels - as measured in saliva samples - rose significantly after men drove the former, but not the latter.

Saad, G. & Vongas, J., "The Effect of Conspicuous Consumption on Men's Testosterone Levels," Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes (forthcoming).

...I wonder how the study would have turned out had the subjects been racing motorcycles....