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Author Topic: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes  (Read 1302 times)

Zaph

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Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« on: July 13, 2017, 05:44:55 PM »
Years ago Kawasaki screwed up a perfectly good 250 class by coming out with a 300.  Now they did it again.  In 2018 the baby ninja will be a 400.  This sucks for everybody in the race community.

 http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/ninja-400-new-kawasaki-model-accidentally-revealed-during-tv-commercial-filming-in-milwaukee/

Too large to race in any class except 500SS, and in that class it will likely unfairly dominate.  CCS needs to be proactive about this and disallow this bike in ANY race class.  Make an announcement and immediately discourage anyone from buying this bike for racing purposes.  Make an early move to fend off the whiners who will want to race this bike in classes it's not legal in.

When will Japan learn that the Ultralight class needs standards in the same way 600's and 1000's do.

britx303

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 06:46:52 PM »
Disallow it from any class???? Seriously?? Its already perfectly legal in the 2-500 classes on paper.Since 500 supersports inception, its always been 500 cc twin 4 strokes.......ala the cbr500......which was kind of the main bike in mind......correct? Why should a smaller displacement twin from Kawasaki be not allowed? Alot of people thought inline 4-400cc bikes were going to dominate 500SS,but the 300s have been giving us a serious run for our money.....if not flatout kicking our tails quite a few times. I get not allowing it in ULTB and GTUL.....but not allow it anywhere......why?

Zaph

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 09:01:32 AM »
Well ok, let's allow it in 500... If it's a turd like the cbr500.  But the chances are it won't be, putting the majority of the class at a huge disadvantage.  I can hear the bitching and whining already from the majority of the class about the "cheater bike".

CCS doesn't have a very good record at keeping the non-standard classes fair.  Look at the air cooled Ducatis allowed in lightweight.  They could head off another issue like that by disallowing the Ninja 400 immediately.  Don't give people any time to buy one and they start begging for classes to run in. 

Racing needs standards.  Racing doesn't need another bike that doesn't fit into classes well.

Actually it shouldn't matter much to me personally since I retired from racing this year.

vance

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 06:13:18 PM »
And welcome to the world of the 250 racers 4 years ago.  The 300 guys will have a hard time making the same argument we did with the 250's and that is "Keep this class the way it is for a bike that is no longer made."  Assuming the 400 replaces the 300 and they don't continue both lines.
And for the record I still race a 250 against the 300's and the R3.  It is what it is.  If you want true parody, you almost have to move to the 600 or 1k classes.

britx303

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 03:09:23 PM »
Good point on the ridiculous holdout for bikes no longer made. Time for the R3 to be allowed in ultralight thunderbike and GTUL!!! Seriously.

vance

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 04:39:21 PM »
There are a few that run here in FL.  Nobody protests mainly because the grids are so light I think everyone is happy to have another bike on the grid. I run my stock FZR400 in vintage not because I have a remote shot but because I hate to see two bikes on the grid. The playground has to remain open and I hate to see any class discontinued. 
I will say the few that run here are well sorted and always win


Edit: Brit I just read your post CORRECTLY :). I thought you were saying let them in to 300GT and 300TB because technically if you read the rule book they're not even allowed in those two classes. They're over the displacement. This has never been addressed because in my opinion most people think that's a fair match up with the ninja 300. We know from the Jennings Endurance races the RC390's are clearly ahead of both the R3 and ninja 300.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 04:55:28 PM by vance »

britx303

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 05:16:41 PM »
 :biggrin: Yep,I was saying to finally let the R3 in the 2 other 300 classes........but I understand CCS's initial holdout since its 321cc,and everytime one of the manufactures bumps up wee bike displacement,they've gotta change the rules. But at this point holding the R3 out of UL thunderbike and GTUL is past its validity.......imho. Especially if the ex300 does in fact get bumped to 400,which at this point is still speculation.

bruce71198

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 03:10:01 PM »
When introducing the 400 I don't thinks Kawi even considered racing when making their decision. With dwindling sales of the 600's the manufacturers are turning to the small bike market in order to fill that void. The smaller bike will be easier to afford both in purchase price and insuring it, hopefully boosting sales,  and the profit margin will most likely be higher for them. It cost almost the same money to build a 600 as it does a 1000 but the 600 is sold cheaper to attract buyers and fill the middleweight category.

Zaph

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 06:27:43 PM »
It's just Kawasaki one-upping the R3 with a larger engine.  It's kinda stupid.  Instead of making a better bike, they just make a bigger one with the same 1980's crappy fork design.  I would have been really impressed with Kawasaki if they had kept the bike a 300 and added adjustable USD Forks, but they took the easy way out.

And for what it's worth, I wouldn't mind the R3 in GT300.  Having been behind a few of them at the track here and there, I see it's pretty close.  Just keep the RC390 out of those 300 classes and all is well.

bruce71198

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 06:41:42 PM »
Is Kawi still offering the 300?

Zaph

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2017, 10:00:34 PM »
I doubt it, but we will have to wait and see for their announcement.

britx303

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 08:52:34 AM »
True......nothings official yet. I just wish all the manufactures would stop being so hard headed and just make the I-4 400's again,Then i'd be a happy paying customer instead of buying someone elses old clapped out stuff :biggrin:

vance

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 06:58:40 AM »
If the 300 is discontinued:
Since all of the cool parts are a direct swap between the 250 and 300, I could see leaving the 300 classes as is for several years at least, due to parts availability.
Put the R3, 390, the new 400 and the Honda 500 in the 500SS and SB classes.
The only issue I see with this is the 300's have two designated classes and can race up in two classes somewhat competitively.
The R3, 390 and 400 would have two classes they're fairly competitive in but will get trounced if they race up a class into lightweights.


Again we are back to the argument of catering to bikes that are no longer made, but it would make sense to cater to your paying established customers rather than hoping they'll all go buy the new 400.

apriliaman

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2017, 01:39:56 PM »
In the MidAtlantic region sometimes there can be up to 20 bikes in the 300 and 500 races now races even in moto3.In the MidWest there is alot also.You can look up the results from NJMP.From what I see racing my FZR400 yes I do have a top end power advantage,but my bike is 50-80 pounds heaver and slower in the turns then the fastest 300's.I used to win alot of races but not anymore as now the 300's have figured out what they need to go faster and there 1-2 seconds a lap faster now.https://www.youtube.com/user/Hoeckel13  check out some races of the leaders
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LWT Racer

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Re: Kawasaki did it again - messing up ultralight classes
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2017, 04:29:28 PM »
unfairly dominate?
It won't come close to beating some of the bikes that are legal for 500 classes. (equal riders)
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