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Author Topic: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?  (Read 6644 times)

bruce71198

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2016, 09:25:01 AM »
Damn forum, wouldn't post what I typed! We used to run both those tracks with North Woods GP, fun but turnout was poor for the Ninja's. Does anyone know how to post a video here?

bruce71198

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2016, 09:38:50 AM »
Wait, so earlier on you said the R3 and RC390 should have to run Supersport rules.  Yet you have a "250" that is making 50HP?  How is that fair?  So I get to ride around with 40 hp, and supersport rules while you can do pretty much anything to your Ninja 250 or 300 in order to make 50hp and do other weight loss mods? 

Sounds like there is absolutely no reason the KTM and R3 shouldn't be allowed in the UL class.
Wait, so earlier on you said the R3 and RC390 should have to run Supersport rules.  Yet you have a "250" that is making 50HP?  How is that fair?  So I get to ride around with 40 hp, and supersport rules while you can do pretty much anything to your Ninja 250 or 300 in order to make 50hp and do other weight loss mods? 

Sounds like there is absolutely no reason the KTM and R3 shouldn't be allowed in the UL class.

Let me clarify, This would make a competitive class for ULW: Ninja 250=Thunderbike rules 300cc max.
                                                                                            Ninja300 & Yamaha320=SS rules
                                                                                            KTM390=cup spec. minus throttle stop

Zaph

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2016, 03:14:52 PM »
[size=78%]Furthermore, if you are just there for the battles why do you care WHO finishes on the podium. Personally I rather finish 8th having a great battle with multiple people than ride off into the sunset in first place...[/size]


Yeah I like the battles, but let's get serious.  This isn't a track day, it's racing. The podium is always important.


This year I did a total of 7 individual races on 3 different race weekends.  I don't think there has been a yellow plate on the podium in any of those races.  I don't know about last year, but this year there hans't been much for yellow plates in any of the classes I've been in.


In a couple races, I was the fastest amateur, but I wasn't anywhere near the podium. For me, racing has been a little lonely in ultralight classes.  The white plates take off, the beginners fall behind and I'm by myself for the rest of the race. The few battles I've had were with lightweight riders, where any passes didn't count for position.


I'm throwing ideas around here, but all I really want is more people to race against.  I don't care if it's R3's or RC390's but I would like more amatuers, and I would like a set of rules to bring the competition closer together.

Zaph

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2016, 03:26:11 PM »
Let me clarify, This would make a competitive class for ULW: Ninja 250=Thunderbike rules 300cc max.
                                                                                            Ninja300 & Yamaha320=SS rules
                                                                                            KTM390=cup spec. minus throttle stop


I like this.  Could even go further and say CBR250's can run the 305 kit with cam and MR12. (everyone else runs pump gas)  It would bring those bikes right into the mix too.  And the Honda fanboys would get all excited.  The grid could be huge.


But yeah, selective modification for specific bikes would bring everyone together.

genosr1

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2016, 05:04:20 PM »
get some rules set in stone where a 250 can compete and i'm in

Capitalview

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2016, 08:35:22 AM »
That would be like going out and getting a Duc 749R for Thunderbike, and then complaining it cant run LWSS.

This is exactly my point.  No, I would not go and get a Ducati 749, or a 748, and expect to run lightweight classes with them.  Specifically because they were designed and marketed as middle weight bikes.  For some reason CCS rule makers saw fit to allow them into Thunderbike and LWF40 though. This is also the reason the BMW HP2 isn't allowed in lightweight classes.  It was never marketed as a lightweight bike even though it fits into the lightweight class structure.  That is pretty much a direct quote from Eric Kelcher.

The R3 and RC390 have been specifically designed and marketed as entry level sport bikes and are in DIRECT competition with the Ninja 300 for market segment.  All three are grouped together in every other major racing organization.  Even in the new FIM ultra lightweight class running next year.

I would have no problem with the RC390 running without the throttle stop too.  Specifically because of what I stated above.  Running different brands of bike in a race org one brand might have an advantage over the others.  That is the nature of the beast in racing.  New bikes come out that are better than the old ones.  That is not a reason to exclude them from the class though.

Capitalview

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2016, 08:43:01 AM »
Let me clarify, This would make a competitive class for ULW: Ninja 250=Thunderbike rules 300cc max.
                                                                                            Ninja300 & Yamaha320=SS rules
                                                                                            KTM390=cup spec. minus throttle stop

This sounds great to me!

Although, if you ran a non cup RC390, would you have to get a throttle stop then? 

I have no problem with the RC390 running unrestricted.  It is a nature of the beast in racing that one manufacturer can have an advantage over another.  It can all change the next year though.  Plus, I have found the R3 has the advantage on the top end where the 390 has it in the low end.  As long as I keep my RPMs high enough I don't have a problem with the 390.  Other than on race starts.  As I have used the R3 more though, even this has been getting better for me.

Capitalview

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2017, 08:12:49 PM »
Kawasaki 300 takes pole and wins inaugural WSS300 race.  Yamaha R3 2nd Honda CBR500 third...

bruce71198

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2017, 01:20:35 PM »
Just an FYI, I was out at chuckwalla 2 times over the winter, HUGE ultralight weight turn out out there, 36 bikes on the grid. Also down in Florida they've been getting big turnouts.

britx303

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2017, 07:08:53 PM »
It sure seems like its time to let the R3 in......... :biggrin:

SuperLex Dad

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2017, 11:54:30 PM »
At CCS last time, Bruce was on the Metrakit. I'm not a great rider, and I was riding just a tad bit slower than Bruce on that bike (and Bruce is fast) while I was on a Ninja250. So I would not call that a GP bike. The KTM 300 was a clerical error (there were many that weekend). That was a Ninja300.

That's because technically the Metrakit not a GP bike but a Pre GP 125. Honda RS 125, Honda NSF 250 and MD 250 can run circles around it.

SuperLex Dad

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2017, 12:02:18 AM »
This past weekend at RRR every bike on the grid in the 300 GT got DQ'ed  :banghead:

Three R3s and one Metrakit. There would of been one more R3 but he was told he couldn't run in 300 GT during registration.

vance

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Re: Ultralight Thunderbike Displacement?
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2017, 12:18:18 PM »
This past weekend at RRR every bike on the grid in the 300 GT got DQ'ed  :banghead:

Three R3s and one Metrakit. There would of been one more R3 but he was told he couldn't run in 300 GT during registration.
I was wondering when that would happen.  We're ok with it here in FL plus it's nice to have more bikes on the grid, but all anyone has to do is point to the bike and say no.  Not a very hard protest.  Wait until next year when the 300 is replaced by the 400.
IMO, a lesson should be taken from the other FL org regarding these ultralight classes, and before I post it and get flamed, I get the whole "everybody gets a trophy"....
Grid them all together, but in separately scored classes
250
300
320/390/metrakit
125GP
Whatever....  I've chatted enough with the guys running the FMRRA rounds, nobody cares if you're blatantly cheating, like slicks and pod filters on SS bikes, or in this case an R3 in 300GT, just run the next class up.  We're all out there together and it forms a huge grid but nobody gets butt hurt over someone else's faster bike.  It's a scalp if you can beat them, no harm if you don't.
I'll bet SuperLex is grinning from ear to ear when she passes an SV or whatever LWT bike thats gridded in the race in front of us.  It shouldn't even matter, they're not even in her race, but it does.


Edit: I do like Bruce's idea, but instead of trying to conform every bike to one race, just combine multiple classes into the same grid.  Easier, IMO
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 12:20:48 PM by vance »