THE 300S GET PUT IN 500SS

Started by MACOP1104, November 26, 2014, 08:50:58 AM

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HerbigCBR

Quote from: Zaph on November 26, 2014, 08:26:32 PM
There's been a couple discussions about this around this forum.

Yeah, the rule is stupid.  The CCS wasn't thinking or listening to what people want when they decided to group the R3 and RC390 in with 500SS.  It's like saying SV650's are welcome to race in middleweight.


Maybe they were listening to the people on the 250's. I think the 250 riders outnumber the ninja 300, fzr400, & cbr500 bikes combined...
Jared Herbig - CCS #323
Thanks to: Spears Racing - TSE

SVbadguy

Here's a power to weight comparison I put together based on the average numbers I could find online.

RC390
7.95 lb/hp
13.5lb/ft-lb tq

R3
8.8 lb/hp
16.9lb/fl-lb tq

CBR500
9.55 lb/hp
14.7 lb/ft-lb tq

Ninja 300
11.6 lb/hp
22.7 lb/ft-lb tq
Mid-Atlantic Region 
MARRC Exec Committee at-large & Radio Committee Chair

Capitalview

Quote from: HerbigCBR on November 26, 2014, 08:52:46 PM
Maybe they were listening to the people on the 250's. I think the 250 riders outnumber the ninja 300, fzr400, & cbr500 bikes combined...

There was a simple, yet ignored solution.  Run the 250s and new ULW bikes during the same race.  Just score them separately.  That is what several race orgs are already doing.  CCS could have had the best of both worlds with a better bottom line.

Capitalview

Are those stock or modified HP and TRQ #s?


I find it hard to believe the Kawi has the most lb/hp # since it is heavier by about 20 or 30 lbs

SVbadguy

Stock numbers.

More weight per horsepower = lower performance= Ninja is the slowest engine-wise.
Mid-Atlantic Region 
MARRC Exec Committee at-large & Radio Committee Chair

MACOP1104

Quote from: SVbadguy on November 26, 2014, 09:04:47 PM
Here's a power to weight comparison I put together based on the average numbers I could find online.

RC390
7.95 lb/hp
13.5lb/ft-lb tq

R3
8.8 lb/hp
16.9lb/fl-lb tq

CBR500
9.55 lb/hp
14.7 lb/ft-lb tq

Ninja 300
11.6 lb/hp
22.7 lb/ft-lb tq


Good info.  So a conservative FZR400 at 55hp and 400 lbs is 7.27 lbs/hp.   A 60hp FZR400 at 385 lbs is 6.42 lbs/hp.   Im not sure what a SS FZR400 is capable of hp and weight.

MACOP1104

Quote from: HerbigCBR on November 26, 2014, 08:52:46 PM
Maybe they were listening to the people on the 250's. I think the 250 riders outnumber the ninja 300, fzr400, & cbr500 bikes combined...

Fine.  250s can race themselves and the newer ulwtb bikes can go at it.   This is what WERA is doing for 2015.   

Capitalview

Quote from: SVbadguy on November 26, 2014, 09:40:08 PM
Stock numbers.

More weight per horsepower = lower performance= Ninja is the slowest engine-wise.


Yeah, I had it hp/lb in my head for some reason,  not lb/hp.

Zaph

Quote from: HerbigCBR on November 26, 2014, 08:52:46 PM
Maybe they were listening to the people on the 250's. I think the 250 riders outnumber the ninja 300, fzr400, & cbr500 bikes combined...

If they were listening, they would have fixed the mistake of allowing the ninja 300 into that group.  It's not the bike numbers that count, it's the fairness. 

Quote from: Capitalview on November 26, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
There was a simple, yet ignored solution.  Run the 250s and new ULW bikes during the same race.  Just score them separately.  That is what several race orgs are already doing.  CCS could have had the best of both worlds with a better bottom line.

I like this idea a lot.  There's a place for everyone then.

Quote from: SVbadguy on November 26, 2014, 09:04:47 PM
RC390
7.95 lb/hp
13.5lb/ft-lb tq

You're using a crankshaft hp number for the RC and R3.  We don't have real RWHP numbers yet.  I suspect all these bikes will be pretty close to the ninja 300 with the R3 having the biggest advantage.  Also, at some bigger track, the more important spec is peak hp vs aerodynamic efficiency.  Put all the bikes at Daytona or Road America, and weight doesn't even matter anymore.

apriliaman

The Kawasaki EX500 has more power than the Honda CBR500.That bike can be raced also
Winner of at least 50 CCS Lightweight Regional Championships
3 National Championships
Top 10 plate holder since 2006

Gino230

Correct me if I'm wrong please:

The 250 riders are still happy, as the 300's are out but they still don't have the spec class.

However the Ninja 300 guys are hosed because they can't ride with the 250s and will get smoked by the 500s.

The 390 and 500 guys (whoever they will be) are not happy because the FZR 400 will be too fast.

SO everyone is marginally unhappy- sounds like they got the rule right?
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

Gino230

Quote from: apriliaman on November 27, 2014, 12:17:28 AM
The Kawasaki EX500 has more power than the Honda CBR500.That bike can be raced also

Mark, any idea what the top speed on the FZR was at Daytona?

These power to weight numbers don't tell the whole story. It's relevant but the way the bikes make power, length of straights, aerodynamics play a big role. The big HP LW bikes make 128 HP, but an R6 has 30+ MPH top speed advantage despite the same dyno numbers.

Each bike will have it's own strengths and weaknesses.
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!