Okay, since I'm leaving for Firebird, I probably won't be able to respond to emails, so here's the list AS OF RIGHT NOW of bumped experts. I am not completely finished, so if you do not see your name on this list and you think it should be, I'll have a couple of add-ons after this weekend.
PETER C ADLER
BRUCE AKIOKA
IKE ANDERSON
GINO ANGELLA
TONY ANGELLA
ERIC ARNOLD
KENNETH ATKINS
ROB BAKER
CHRISTOPHER T BANKSTON
WILLIAM BARAGONA
RODNEY SCOTT BARKALOW
BILLY BARR
JAMES E BEARD
RON BELISLE
JEREMY BENTZ
STEPHEN BERGERON
BRIAN BERNARD
JAMES BERRY
DON BIR
EDWIN BISHOP
JON BLAYLOCK
TODD BOHNSACK
RUSS BOLLE
ZOLTAN BOROS
JASON BOYLE
J MICHAEL BRANSON
BRENT M BROUSSARD
NED BROWN
SHAWN M. BROWN
MATTHEW E BUCK
DAN BURNETTE
PAUL BURNS JR.
PAUL BUXTON
ANTHONY CABRERA
ALFREDO CANTU JR
MICHAEL CASEY
JAMES H CHANCE III
YOAN CHAVEZ
VICTOR CHIRINO
ERIC TODD CLAGETT
KEVIN C CLARK
BENJAMIN CLAUSS
RYAN T CLEMM
ANDREW S COHAN
CARL COHEN
MIKE COLEMAN
ROBERT COLLINS
MAURICE COLONTONIO
ANTONIO COMA
ANTHONY CONNOR
DONALD R COOK
LANCE B CRAWFORD
CLINT CULPEPPER
BENNY J DAFONTE
KENNY DALLAS
ARMAN DANIEL
MARSHALL T DANIEL
BILL DAVENPORT
LEE DAVIS
REY DE LA SIERRA
ROB DEARDEN
OMAR DEIDA
MARK DENNIS
JOSEPH D. DEVIVO III
DAVID R DEWARF
LAZ DIAZ
ANDREW JASON DIPINTO
SCOTT DOBSON
SCOTT DOOLEY
DANIEL P DOUGHERTY
BRYAN DOUGLAS
KIRK DOWNS
PHILLIP DOYLE
RICHARD H EANES
ERIC EBERT
RYAN ELLEBY
ROBERT F ENRIQUEZ
PATRICK J ERICKSON
MIKI ESPIRITU
BRAD FAAS
CARLOS ARIEL FERNANDEZ
CHARLES L FISHER
RUSS FOGGIN
JOHN NEAL FOSTER
NEIL FRANK
THOMAS FREDRICKS
KARL L FRISCH
RANDY FROST
STEVE FUKIAGE
DAVE GABERT
AARON GERLACH
DAVID GIRARDIN
JASON GODWIN
THOMAS GOIGITZER
ANGEL GOMEZ
MICKY GRANA
MAXIMILIAN GRANT
GEOFF GRAY
CORDELL GREEN
ROBERT GREENWALD
ROBERT W GRESENS
NIELS GROVE
KRISTY GUENDELSBERGER
DAVE GYGAX
MIKE HAAREN
BRENDEN HAFNER
DAVID HAFNER
JEFF L HAGEMANN
BRIAN HALL
MATT HALL
ZANE HALVORSEN
CARY HARBISON
DIRK HARDEN
AL HARRIS
JEFF HARRIS
SCOTT WILLIAM HARTER
TIMOTHY HARTER
JEREMY T HARVEY
ARNOLD HASTINGS
THOMAS HAYKIN
ROBERT HEGGE
ERIC HELMBACH
IAN-JAMES HELMKE
JEFFREY B HOLTON
PAUL HOPKINS
DOUGLAS HORNE
ADAM WADE HOWARD
MATT HUBER
MICHAEL HUMPHRIES
JOE HUTT
DARRELL JACKSON
JOE JACKSON
HECTOR JIMENEZ
BRIAN JOHNSON
CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON
JEFF JOHNSON
SHAWN A. JONES
KEITH JOY
DONNY KELLEY
BILL KEROS
DAVID E KNOX
SIMON KOWALSKI
WALTER J KUGLER
ANTHONY LAMBERT
DWAYNE LANG
DANIELE LENARDUZZI
JOSH LENZ
JASON LEWIS
JOSHUA OLIN LILBURN
KUAN LIU
BRIAN LOGAN
DAVID LOIKITS
ROBERT LOMBARDI
ADRES LONDONO
GREGORY LUDT
JASON MAI
TIMOTHY I MAINARD
SHANNON MANDERFIELD
SHAY MARLIN
JEFF MARSH
JOE MARTIN
SEAN G MASON
NICHOLAS MAYERNICK
KEVIN MAYS
TRAVIS MC KERNEY
DWAIN O. MCARTHUR
RICHARD P MCCULLOUGH
JAMES L MCKILLIP
CHRISTIAN MEEKMA
GREG MELKA
WILLIAM MEYERS II
HARLEY DAVIDSON MIGNEAULT
ADAM K MIHULKA
MICHAEL MILLS
PIERRE MONTSION
JONNY MOORE
PETE MORAVEK
JOSE MOREAU
SCOTT MULLINS
DARREN MULVANEY
MICHAEL MURRAY
EDWARD NASH
SABA NASSIRI
MARK NELSON
SANG NGUYEN
ALEJANDRO NIEVES
LEONARD NOVAK
Continued...
STEPHEN O'CONNOR
KENNY OYEN
NICK PAL
CHRIS PASS
RYAN PATTERSON
THOMAS PERINO
JEFFREY K. PERMANIAN
ERIC PETERSEN
JOSEPH J PHILBROOK
NIC PIEKARSKI
GREG PITTS
DARBY POOL
SHAWN POOLE
MICHAEL PRUITT
RYAN PYLES
JAY SCOTT QUICK
RODOLFO J RAMIREZ
SAM RAYBOURN
JOHN A REDLING
WALTER REEVES
NATHANIEL REIK
STEPHAN REYNOLDS
JOSEPH RIFFICE
DANIEL RITER
PATRICK ROBINSON
JORGE RODRIGUEZ
MIKE ROESER
JOHN ROOP
JAMES ROSS
JOHN ROSSITER
COREY ROWE
KEITH ROYLE
DOUG RUMER
JOSEPH RUSSO
DAVID SADUSKY
RENE SANTANA
MICHAEL SANTELIA
GREG SCHMIDT
CRAIG SCHOCK
TRISTAN SCHOENEWALD
WADE N SEARS
ELAINE SEASLY
ZACHARIAH SEASLY
STEPHEN SERVIS
MICHAEL SHALLCROSS
BRIAN SHAW
WILLIAM W SHERMAN
TOM SHORT
ROB SMITH
RYAN R. SOHN
MARK SPIEGEL
JAMES R STANLEY
GREG STELTENPOHL
ROB STEWART
JEFF STOXEN
BRIAN L STRINGFIELD
ANDREW P. SURBER
BRETT SWAIN
JAMES L. SWAN
MARC A SWEIGARD
STEVEN TATHAM
TOMMY THOMPSON
BENJAMIN THORNTON
TONY TINSLEY
LUONG TRAN
KYLE TSENG
JAMES G TUTTLE
JUSTIN VAN DYCK
CHARLES VEDRAL
STEVE VENTO
STUART VERNON
SCOTT VORREYER
COREY VUAGNIAUX
BRUCE E WAGNER
MATTHEW WALKER
CHAD WASILESKI
KEVIN WASKO
KEVIN C WEHNER
JOHN WEHRLI
JOHN F WEINSSEN
DAVID WHITE
JAMESON WHITE
MICHAEL WIKE
KIRK WILDE
SIMON WILLIAMS
SCOTT WILSON
CHRIS WISSINK
JOSH WOHLSTEIN
SEAN WYATT
DAVID YESKI
J.J. ZEHR
DAFAN ZHANG
JULIO ZOEIRO
CHUCK ZULEGER
Tiff,
this is an outrage!!!!! I can't believe that I am getting bumped. Who makes the rules here????
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lil thorny.
QuoteTiff,
this is an outrage!!!!! I can't believe that I am getting bumped. Who makes the rules here????
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lil thorny.
See what happens when ya win a few National championships.. they think your good or somethin!! :)
QuoteTiff,
this is an outrage!!!!! I can't believe that I am getting bumped. Who makes the rules here????
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lil thorny.
I can petition for you to stay yellow if ya want... that would one less person I gotta race against next year hehe
I wonder how many out of this list is going to end up with a white plate next year.
Lets take bets and start a pool! ;D
ahh its that time of the year again. When we leave for daytona cuz I cant wait
I hope they all go EX. I might get a top 10 next year :o. I wish
Dafan
When will the 04 TPM track track day sched be up on the site?
QuoteI wonder how many out of this list is going to end up with a white plate next year.
Lets take bets and start a pool! ;D
Put me in for $10.00.... I say 82% will go!
I wouldn't say that high...
How about how many WON'T race next year? (not to be negative, but it's an inevitable fact...) :-/
mr Zhang,
i won't be going to Daytona in march. I'm scared ;D
but will whoop your a$$ @ Barber if you so choose to
go. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
hey, BTW, anybody know how Hector is doing...and
how is Bill's hand?
30
I yam an AM, I yam, I yam.
:D
Quotemr Zhang,
i won't be going to Daytona in march. I'm scared ;D
but will whoop your a$$ @ Barber if you so choose to
go. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
hey, BTW, anybody know how Hector is doing...and
how is Bill's hand?
30
I don't know which way Barber goes yet, so I better do some homework huh... ass whopping is not that easy :P come to summit and VIR and I will return the favor
but I will be at barber, I guess I gotta learn the track pretty fast. It ought to be good, 2 of us fighting for 10th place :P :P :P
QuoteI hope they all go EX. I might get a top 10 next year :o. I wish
Dafan
When will the 04 TPM track track day sched be up on the site?
smoke, schedules should be done in the next 2 weeks. I hope to have the site updated before Chistmas
$10 on 40% or less bump up
QuoteOkay, since I'm leaving for Firebird, I probably won't be able to respond to emails, so here's the list AS OF RIGHT NOW of bumped experts. I am not completely finished, so if you do not see your name on this list and you think it should be, I'll have a couple of add-ons after this weekend.
IKE ANDERSON
Hey!!! >:(
I can tell you MYSELF, that there's ONE guy that AINT good enuff for EXPERT!!!
Is this thing on???
QuoteHey!!! >:(
I can tell you MYSELF, that there's ONE guy that AINT good enuff for EXPERT!!!
Is this thing on???
I never thought I'd say this... "Hey, look everybody! Ike's WHITE!"
See you on the grid...
QuoteSee you on the grid...
maybe...
hopefully...
hello. Anyone there? It seems someone confused me, jeff marsh, as a fast and experienced rider. First race was in Apr and i never took better than 2nd in any of me races -- and of the ones i took 2nd in, its because all of the other riders fell down or felt bad for me...
consider the petition form already filed unless one of my competitors has a compelling reason to say i was overly skilled/talented at the amat level in the whole 5 race events i competed in. Melk, Beard, CampBell, Laz -- need help here..
JM
QuoteI never thought I'd say this... "Hey, look everybody! Ike's WHITE!"
See you on the grid...
Now THATS funny.. congrats Ike.. 8)
Quotehello. Anyone there? It seems someone confused me, jeff marsh, as a fast and experienced rider. First race was in Apr and i never took better than 2nd in any of me races -- and of the ones i took 2nd in, its because all of the other riders fell down or felt bad for me...
consider the petition form already filed unless one of my competitors has a compelling reason to say i was overly skilled/talented at the amat level in the whole 5 race events i competed in. Melk, Beard, CampBell, Laz -- need help here..
JM
Welcome to the "white plates" group Jeff. Give it a shot with the petition..supprized Campbell didtn get bumped but he did start competing some time after you. Your probably over the 500pt limit. Racing 4 classes each time since the 4th race of the season will do that..
QuoteWelcome to the "white plates" group Jeff. Give it a shot with the petition..supprized Campbell didtn get bumped but he did start competing some time after you. Your probably over the 500pt limit. Racing 4 classes each time since the 4th race of the season will do that..
White plate my ass, not til i have a reasonable finish in the amat class. thanks for the earlier heads up that 500 pts is all it takes to get there. Call me stupid, but # of top 3 finishes should be given some consideration. don't you think? Where do i find that petition?
Stop being such a squid Jeff and step up to the White plates. ;D Maybe ill petetion to and say its not my fault eveyone was behind me :P
QuoteWhite plate my ass, not til i have a reasonable finish in the amat class. thanks for the earlier heads up that 500 pts is all it takes to get there. Call me stupid, but # of top 3 finishes should be given some consideration. don't you think? Where do i find that petition?
Pretty easy to get 500 pts. A win is 65pts, 2nd 60 i think, then starts going down less from there..you had many top 10 and a few top 5 so im pretty sure your over 500pts. I have no idea where the formal petition is. Go to the CCS website and call one of the numbers there..
http://www.formulausa.com/points/Florida%20Overall%20Points.htm
Jeff marsh ...1036 pts.. just a tad over 500 ;) SEE YA ON THE GRID MARSH!! ;D
QuoteStop being such a squid Jeff and step up to the White plates. ;D Maybe ill petetion to and say its not my fault eveyone was behind me :P
i'd have no prob stepping up if i didn't fear of being run over. However, now that i know your a white plater, i feel confident Im not the slowest expert rider on the track. :o hope all is well steve. See you soon....JM
QuotePretty easy to get 500 pts. A win is 65pts, 2nd 60 i think, then starts going down less from there..you had many top 10 and a few top 5 so im pretty sure your over 500pts. I have no idea where the formal petition is. Go to the CCS website and call one of the numbers there..
http://www.formulausa.com/points/Florida%20Overall%20Points.htm
Jeff marsh ...1036 pts.. just a tad over 500 ;) SEE YA ON THE GRID MARSH!! ;D
yeh, my receiving of that many pts goes to show just how easy accumulating pts is. its 6 top 5 finishes, but who's counting. Rest assured, you'll see me on the grid but much after that i'm afraid you won't see me again til the end of the race.. Might have to open the wife's piggy bank and see what kind of new machinery i can get, since i'm at a serious skill and serious bike advantage vs. that new beast of yours. Then again, i now have an excuse for finishing last -- its the bike.. ::)
yup, time to go up! woohoo!!!
benji,
hec is doing pretty good now, pretty much all healed and ready to go for next year, he's excited!
on my front, i'm recovering from my arm surgery to correct my compressed nerves (carpal & cubital) and arm pump problem. had it on friday and today is the 1st day off percocet..;)
hopefully a few endurance races are in my future! :D
i'm looking forward to barber too!
btw...10 bucks on 60%.
Quotei'd have no prob stepping up if i didn't fear of being run over. However, now that i know your a white plater, i feel confident Im not the slowest expert rider on the track. :o hope all is well steve. See you soon....JM
Excuse me jeff but i do believe my times at Jennings are faster!! :P Dont you worry you will be seeing me in MW next year just wont tell you what ill be riding ;) :-X
QuoteNow THATS funny.. congrats Ike.. 8)
Tanks, ......I Tink..... ::)
guess we'll be seein ya at Barber, eh...???
QuoteTanks, ......I Tink..... ::)
guess we'll be seein ya at Barber, eh...???
I really hope to do that track in 04, and VIR. Thats the goal. :)
Quoteyup, time to go up! woohoo!!!
benji,
hec is doing pretty good now, pretty much all healed and ready to go for next year, he's excited!
on my front, i'm recovering from my arm surgery to correct my compressed nerves (carpal & cubital) and arm pump problem. had it on friday and today is the 1st day off percocet..;)
hopefully a few endurance races are in my future! :D
i'm looking forward to barber too!
btw...10 bucks on 60%.
thanks for the update Ned, i should be having surgery on something too..... just don't know which
yet ;D ;D
Benj.
FYI--I'm pretty strict on petitions...Dafan, your number is WAY low...don't lose your money. And if you have 6 top five finishes and 1036 points, I think it's safe to say you can go up. Being an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing.
QuoteFYI--I'm pretty strict on petitions...Dafan, your number is WAY low...don't lose your money. And if you have 6 top five finishes and 1036 points, I think it's safe to say you can go up. Being an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing.
Tiff. I just sent you an e-mail. Please respond when you get a chance. Thanks a bunch..JM
you guys get 65 points for a win ., holly crap no wonder you have so many points...
in LRRS we get 15-24 points for a win .....
i have been rooked...... ::)
QuoteFYI--I'm pretty strict on petitions...Dafan, your number is WAY low...don't lose your money. And if you have 6 top five finishes and 1036 points, I think it's safe to say you can go up. Being an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing.
Hey its just a unlucky guess. so what was the percetange last year? Just seem like not too many people I know last year moved up even after earning 500 points. Me included. If I and donnie kelley was allowed to stay am, how many more? Just wondering.
donnie should have been bumped. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone out there should stay AM its definitely me!!!!!!!!! I took 8th twice, the first had 10 riders and the second only had 8!!!!! Hey, some of us feel we've had a good day when we finish middle of the pack. Yeah I might have 1076 points but thats only cause I made just about all the races and I still suck.
Man, I just hope all you slow, sucky guys end up as experts. Up here on the white wave, all the fast guys just disappear, leaving me to race alone. I need some slow experts to play with!
QuoteBeing an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing.
Thank you, Tiffiney. That's what I've said all the time. It ain't about how fast you are.
"Being an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing. "
"Thank you, Tiffiney. That's what I've said all the time. It ain't about how fast you are."
I don't understand. How does accumulating 500 pts mean you, I, or anyone in question "understands the sport" or "knows what they're doing"?? To get 500 pts, you must do something right, i.e. be FAST enough (or attend enough events) to finish well enough to get there. So, in essence, it kinda IS about how fast you are. And I must admit, after 3 weekends... I still don't really know what I'm doing. I still can't even remember to bring the right paperwork to tech yet :-[
"And if you have 6 top five finishes and 1036 points, I think it's safe to say you can go up. "
I don't think that is enough "evidence" to make that decision, and I know you will/would take more into account when deciding on one's petition. ...right? ???
i.e. performance index, where they double points, so on and so forth.......
I don't disagree with the rules, well I guess I do. It just seems like we need to, as an organization, create some consistency...that ultimately better assists the "management" in the bumping process by setting guidelines that are more befitting to what it actually means to be an expert....or amateur.
The 500 pt rule is BS IMO, and yes I realize I'm beating up on that one in my example... Same goes for the Daytona Top 5. I, correct me if I'm wrong, do not have to do a SINGLE race all season, and I can race at Daytona, right? (VS WERA, where you have to qualify for GNF/ and no, I didn't go to Daytona) So, I show up, not having done 1 regional event, place 5th in MWSB, for example, and BOOM: I'm expert material.
Who made that rule up??
IMO, Daytona should be taken COMPLETELY out of the question when it comes to "bumping". For 1, Daytona doesn't even count for points! Yes, it's the ROC and decides the National Champ for each class, but look at how many people actually go. It could/would be different if Top 10 or 15 in EVERY region showed up to duke it out... but that will never happen. Bumping should stem from the meat of the racing - the regional championships. Enough rambling on that.
My main issue here is that there are many different types of racers out there. Some race for 10 years and never see a podium. Some go to there first event and get 3 out of 4 podiums. ;) That doesn't necessarily mean "they" have the knowledge, experience, and "skill" that it takes to compete in the expert grids. Especially when taking into account if it was done on the only track within the region that the racer has any experience on...
Just for the record...
Another thread on this board has informed us all that the lovely Mrs. Tiffiny is pregnant! :o Hmmm. Hormonal swings, mood changes, shoes & clothes that fit yesterday don't fit today...
Man, I'm sure glad I'm not petitioning to stay amateur this season... ;) :D
;D
Pregnant or not, women can rationalize better than us guys, so I think she'll make the right decisions.
Congrats Tiff! :D
Well, K3, I can tell you that ticking me off right now is very much bad--ask Eric. For anyone to insinuate that I might not put thought into petitions is ridiculous. Those of you that know me know that.
As I have stated many times, I am not going to say "oh, you have x amount of points, you're bumped" and close the book. I look at the performance index, where you raced, who you raced against, where you finished, and how many bikes were in the race. For example, if you're riding and finishing up there with Dafan or Peanut, you must be doing pretty well.
As far as Daytona counting, it absolutely should. If you are an amateur and do not race all season and come to Daytona, you will be on the back of the grid. In Middleweight Superbike (or any other mainstream class), if you come from the back of a 50 bike field and take 5th, yes you SHOULD be an expert. How could that not be fair? It's not like Daytona is an easy track. I have more respect for those of you that have been there than to say "Daytona's not that hard, it shouldn't count."
Also, if you're a Mid Atlantic racer, where grids are the biggest for the most part, and you finish in several top fives, the majority of the time it is the same senario as Daytona. You've got the technical stuff down.
I don't believe that anyone can ever know everything about this sport. Racers will probably never understand the behind the scenes stuff, just like I will probably never understand everything that goes on under a helmet. Because of that, I am not willing to say I am an expert by any means. However, when I get petitions that say "I want to stay amateur so I can win more money" that really bothers me, as it should bother all of you. The petition process is what we have come up with to try to eliminate that from happening.
Thank you for clearing up my ignorance about Daytona. See!? ;D TOLD YA I didn't know what I was doing! LOL That IS a lot of emphisis on 1 race though. What if I came from 50th at a Summit or VIR race and WON? Expert? nope. 65 points. :)
For the record, I'm not trying to "tick you off". I'm just asking questions...trying to learn...in a fun/sarcastic kinda way. :P
Do I wanna stay Amateur because of money? Absolutely not. To an end, my goals for next year (in AM) will hopefully get me seen, moreso than I will in EX, which will hopefully gain me some support for 05. I know that was the goals of many Am's this year, most of which are mentioned in this thread already. Whether or not they reached their goals is their perspective, but they raced in 02 and did rather well, and they were all Am's in 03. ;)
Quoteif you're riding and finishing up there with Dafan or Peanut, you must be doing pretty well.
hey it's been a shitty day and a compliment goes along way right now, thanks! ;D
QuoteI know that was the goals of many Am's this year, most of which are mentioned in this thread already. Whether or not they reached their goals is their perspective, but they raced in 02 and did rather well, and they were all Am's in 03.
this is my take since i'm probably 1 of those guys. i'm not going to spout the normal "i deserved to stay", yada, yada. i went round and round last year about what to do. i had only 1 top 5 finish, but ran in that 2nd pack of guys for the 4-5 events i attended last year. i wasn't really aware of the contingency stuff and because at the time i was in a good financial position, wasn't worried about it either. i consider making expert a achievement, i'm just as excited about that as the victory at daytona. i thought i made the right decision based on my performance last year, that's it.
Could i have moved up and at least not get run over? yup. been a bit competitive? looking back now, probably so. did i question the guys who had more points and were higher up at the end of the year but also stayed? (i was 40th i think w/900 points) no, not really my business. would i have moved if i had run in that top 5 more than once? no doubt! i would've wanted to not get left behind by those guys. they would've been my equals and who wants to be left behind by their peers?
i'm way to competitive for that.
i guess this will be a subject every year forever. many have talked about lower points, new this and that, but that's not the point. it's within the rules to send in a petition within certain perimeters. however remember the fastest guys over the last two seasons in the ma came from nowhere, alex and hector. throw in wera's chad larson, arnie hastings, ryan ellerby, and the kid on the kawi at summit just to name a few, and you have a shitload of superfast guys that just started. hell i think jesse from the mw region is brand new too and he's the fastest of them all!
staying am for a fast guy now doesn't guarantee anything. someone is coming again to surprise us all. everyone has to ask themselves, do you really want to be left behind by your peers?
i'm a perfect example of an amat that started nearly mid season (May) and accumulated over 1k pts with 6 top 5 finishes and a couple 2nds. But i competed in 4 races per event and in many of the races, particularly MWGP, the competetion was fewer than 10 riders. In my region, i had lots of practice at Jennings before hitting official race for first time, but i'm still relatively new at Morosso (<3 times on track) and will see Homestead for first time in early Dec. Never been at Daytona, nor do i care to attend until i get more experience under my belt and feel i truly qualify as an expert in my own mind. I've already petitioned to stay amat and i'm hoping seriously CCS sees that i still have a lot to learn and that i feel i can learn best in the amat class where new and existing riders will be quite competitive next yr.
QuoteWell, K3, I can tell you that ticking me off right now is very much bad--ask Eric. For anyone to insinuate that I might not put thought into petitions is ridiculous. Those of you that know me know that.
Come on, Tiff! We're friends, remember? I remember when you used to laugh at my jokes...
Should I consider you a peer because I was finishing with you? In a sense I see where you're coming from- Seriously... I'm going round and round myself. But I don't think "you guys" would be "leaving me behind", really. I would see ya in 05, right? :) 04 as an AM would give the opportunity to race against those with those "peers" with about the same experience as me. You can't disagree that I have a lot to learn, despite some decent finishes. We all know the military isn't the best paying career in the world, and it's not why I joined. However, I am thankful of the fact that the military has given me the opportunity to pursue racing.
But as of now (LOL) they aren't paying my tire/entry fees, so I'll admit, yes, contingency will (hopefully) aid in some of my racing costs... But that's what it's there for - to help racers out.
I'm not saying I'm the only one in this position, but with 3 race weekends, and 7 trackdays, I can't just compare myself to you, Dafan, Hector, Donny, etc etc etc, (in most cases you guys have 5x or more the track time than I do) but bumping up I have to compare myself to guys like Trey, Tomer, etc etc etc.. as well. Do I expect to beat those guys in my first year? Hell No. But to say I will be competitive is a stretch to say the least. :-/
Well, Tiff, I don't know what else to say. I've basically given any arguement I could in my petition, so if, by this, you think I should not be an AM, so be it. I'll look forward to my @$$ kickin next year.
I for one am happy I made this list...
But I already have my letter written...
1. To slow
2. See #1
3. Can't afford a cooler for my beer, how do you expect me to pay for White paint?
this letter will be given with a small amount of unmarked Quarters (can't afford paint, how can I give dollars away? ;D )
QuoteShould I consider you a peer because I was finishing with you? In a sense I see where you're coming from- Seriously... I'm going round and round myself. But I don't think "you guys" would be "leaving me behind", really. I would see ya in 05, right? :) 04 as an AM would give the opportunity to race against those with those "peers" with about the same experience as me. You can't disagree that I have a lot to learn, despite some decent finishes. We all know the military isn't the best paying career in the world, and it's not why I joined. However, I am thankful of the fact that the military has given me the opportunity to pursue racing.
But as of now (LOL) they aren't paying my tire/entry fees, so I'll admit, yes, contingency will (hopefully) aid in some of my racing costs... But that's what it's there for - to help racers out.
I'm not saying I'm the only one in this position, but with 3 race weekends, and 7 trackdays, I can't just compare myself to you, Dafan, Hector, Donny, etc etc etc, (in most cases you guys have 5x or more the track time than I do) but bumping up I have to compare myself to guys like Trey, Tomer, etc etc etc.. as well. Do I expect to beat those guys in my first year? Hell No. But to say I will be competitive is a stretch to say the least. :-/
Well, Tiff, I don't know what else to say. I've basically given any arguement I could in my petition, so if, by this, you think I should not be an AM, so be it. I'll look forward to my @$$ kickin next year.
i really wasn't singling you out greg, the conversation just got started that way.
i think you'll do great either way because your a good rider, but only you know what's the right thing to do. as i said i didn't question the guys higher up than me who stayed last year, or went to wera.. ;)) i only concerned myself with trying to be a factor with whoever was there. didn't always happen, but that was the central focus.
from what i saw, you had 2 outstanding weekends and 1 bad one. like i've said to you before, my decision was much easier, i wasn't as fast out of the box as you are, but did more weekends. guys like you have a tougher dilemma.
and as you know opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got 'em but only your gets the job done. lol..
QuoteI for one am happy I made this list...
But I already have my letter written...
1. To slow
2. See #1
3. Can't afford a cooler for my beer, how do you expect me to pay for White paint?
this letter will be given with a small amount of unmarked Quarters (can't afford paint, how can I give dollars away? ;D )
:D :D :D :D :D
Hello and let me annouce that this is my very first reply on this board! So, let the comments fly. Tiff, I support your power to accept or not accept these petitions. I for one look forward to racing as an expert. I know I will have to pick up the pace to chase Brian Long out here on the West coast, but I know I can improve and spend tons of money that I don't have on my bike.
I want to offer a viewpoint that others may not appreciate. I think there are way too many AMs running in CCS. I think it is great to have an arena for newbies to get their feet wet and go racing, but it seems to be almost a hiding place from the fearsome experts. What bugs me the most is that the field for the experts are more often than not smaller than the amateurs. I don't want to race with 2 other guys; I want to race a real field of 10-15 guys. If we threw all these AMs and EXs we would have ourselves a real race. Heck, half the time there are not enough racers to get contingency and this would solve that problem.
I really like the policy of 500 points and you are an expert. If all of us were experts, then there is nothing to fuss about. Can't we get these guys to figure out how to race and join the series. I hate to go to another series just so I can actually race with more than 2 guys because everybody including my 2 best racing buddies are staying in the AMs ranks.
Tiff, kick all up I say. They will complain until they start having fun, but you got to kick them all up!
Best,
Mike
hmm... look at the Ex grids in the MA region.. nuff said. ::)
it's not a question of enough riders... :-X
actually, I just did and I stand behind my observations. There are consistently more AMs in any race and between 8-15 guys in expert for the last event for the MA region. You guys have more particpants, but it is still on the light side especially when compared to the AMs. Maybe we should get rid of the expert classification and make everybody AMs ;)
Being an Expert is more about knowing what to do on the track, not just how fast you are. Take a look at my performance factor for this year and some might wonder how I even have an expert license. The fact that I ran in the back this entire season is not at all reflective of my ability, but more representative of my situation this last season (questionable income situation at the time). I was generally running about 10% to 15% off the pace of the Expert leaders this season, but I never crashed once (even though I had Dunlop D207's on my bike from 1999 which at the end of this season had 2 FULL seasons of use on them - apx 110 individual races on those tires!).
My personal expert status in my opinion is about knowing how to get around the track safely. Someone who takes 30 races to get 500 points may not be all that fast, but they most likely understand by that point what to do and what not to do. At the other extreme is the new racer that averages 5th place in 5 classes times 2 events and has 500 points. That person apparently knows enough to finish that high in the results, which would be good grounds for them to advance also. Amateur ranks is a place to learn the basics and then move on, it's not a destination but instead a spring board to the expert ranks.
Quoteactually, I just did and I stand behind my observations. There are consistently more AMs in any race and between 8-15 guys in expert for the last event for the MA region. You guys have more particpants, but it is still on the light side especially when compared to the AMs. Maybe we should get rid of the expert classification and make everybody AMs ;)
This isn't even my point... but ok. Look at the last Summit (that was 1 of my 3 races)
MWSB: 36 AM, 26 EX
MWGP: 17 AM, 12 EX
GTU: 33 AM, 34 EX
SPTBK: 25 AM, 10 EX (didn't do this 1)
MWSS: 33 AM, 37 EX
If you have issues with 2-3 bike grids, get a 600 or move east. ;D
As a past diver, I like the spring board analogy. But my pool has about 2 ft of water in it... :P
As Peanut was eluding to, everyone's situation is different, and the only the individual knows whether or not they should go up.
greg, last summit is a FUSA round. Last VIR was a combined double points round. You have to look at summit and VIR races that aren't double points, arent FUSA, and toward teh mid of the season. I have seem the EX sportbike race (Which pays purse to 10th place) have less than 10 guys in it MOST of the time.
I personally don't want to do all that many CCS races because there is not going to be that many people to run with. The fast guys walk away, the slow guys get left behind, so I am aiming to run mid-pack with peanut and 2 other guys? not fun.
Donnie and me were up there in points last year. He had 1500 or something, and I had 1400. the best finish for me last year was a 6th in the rain. I did not get wood once. I averaged around 10th.
And even then, I think I should have moved up. All the bad reasons aside, I feel that I did not learn as much, and improve as much as I could by running AM. Not to knock on anyone, running behind Hector did not teach me anything but to be more aggressive. And if I get left a bit on the start, I ran slower with the slower guys. I feel I would have learned and improved more if I had raced against BETTER and faster guys. But no point in looking back, I am looking forward to my next season. Making expert is a BIG achievement, I just wish I had embraced it last year.
You will make your best decision, and then CCS will make its. Then we will all shut up and go race and have fun! The system allow you a chance to ask to stay AM, then do it if you feel thats best for you. No wrong in doing that.
There were, are, and will be guys who did way better than you that wants to stay down as a AM. Its up to the org. to supervise that. Even if you stay down, you will see others who will have better days, and finish in front of you next year.
All I can say is, realistically look at your plans and aspirations. Who do you want to be on the same level with, and who can you learn what you need to learn from. If you want to be the best AM rider in CCS, then you must stay AM. If you want to be competitive with the top FUSA guys day in and day out, then you must get there and race and learn from then. Extra year as a AM is only a waste of time (sorry). I wasted mine, and I know I am getting old...
QuoteFor example, if you're riding and finishing up there with Dafan or Peanut, you must be doing pretty well.
Peanut said it right. It is such an accomplishment to be the benchmark for AM's :) Tiff you just made my year! To be in the same comparison as a national champ no less :P
Hey peanut we need to put on a better show next year! us 2 fighting for the box would be sweet indeed. I diced most with you this season. Hector was a step behind and eveyone else wasn't much of a problem. You I had great moments with. We need to keep that up
Quote What bugs me the most is that the field for the experts are more often than not smaller than the amateurs. I don't want to race with 2 other guys; I want to race a real field of 10-15 guys. If we threw all these AMs and EXs we would have ourselves a real race. Heck, half the time there are not enough racers to get contingency and this would solve that problem.
I really like the policy of 500 points and you are an expert. If all of us were experts, then there is nothing to fuss about. Can't we get these guys to figure out how to race and join the series. I hate to go to another series just so I can actually race with more than 2 guys because everybody including my 2 best racing buddies are staying in the AMs ranks.
Tiff, kick all up I say. They will complain until they start having fun, but you got to kick them all up!
Best,
Mike
you need to move out here to FL.. BIG grids.. im not fast, just being out front of the "mid weight marauders" seemed a pretty good place to be ;D
I ready to move if someone has a job for me back East or in Florida. If not i guess I will have to visit you guys. In any case though, I would just like to see the grids combined or larger grids in the expert ranks. If there are smaller grids there it indicates to me that there is a lack of retention of CCS racers or guys are not moving up.
I do really like VIR, I bet I could do well there. HHHmmmmm.
QuoteThe fast guys walk away, the slow guys get left behind, so I am aiming to run mid-pack with peanut and 2 other guys? not fun.
hey! all that humble crap aside i plan to be running up front next year! if someone else can do it, why not me? i didn't have this arm surgery for nothing! ;)lol.. realistic? well see. all i do know is i don't dream about running mid pack! :o
QuoteExtra year as a AM is only a waste of time (sorry). I wasted mine, and I know I am getting old...
sometimes i wonder if taking the challange would have made me a better rider. hopefully it wasn't a waste of time as you say, hell i'm alot older than you guys! >:(
QuoteHey peanut we need to put on a better show next year! us 2 fighting for the box would be sweet indeed. I diced most with you this season. We need to keep that up
i'm sure we'll have fun together on track as always. it'll be interesting when we'll get to ride with all the new superfast guys, hec, donny, myers, benji and the superfast guys already up there like trey, acree etc.. it should be fun and a eye openning experience to say the least. :o (yes i said acree and trey in the same sentence, i think trey could have a breakout year).
First, I want to say that I didn't mean that any of you were ticking me off. I was kidding about a previous statement. I don't get ticked easy, and especially not at y'all. Like I said, with Eric, all he has to do is breathe funny and it's obviously an insult towards me and he spends the night on the couch. Pregnancy at its finest.
Greg, my comments weren't geared towards you. They were just general statements about what's going on.
Please do not say that I have "power" in this situation. I do not look at it that way at all. My job with petitions is to determine what's fair. That isn't power, that's common sense. Our goal in this is not to make your lives miserable or to control your destiny. I am not reviewing anyone's statements on here and making notes about who to bump--the only way that decision is made is by the petition letters that come in with license applications. That's the only way to make it fair.
Personally, with 99% of the guys that have been bumped, they came out better in the long run. I can't count how many times I've heard say "my times have gone up by x seconds--I've been chasing around Joe Bob up there, and it's totally helped". To petition or not to petition, that is the question. And only you guys can make that decision.
what percentage of people petition to stay AM? You must have to read a lot of "interesting" letters. I will be one.
SO any new list updates Tiff?:D:D
BTW Tiff, please dont name your little one with a weird or funny spelled name. I hate having to constantly tell people that there IS two "b"'s in my first name. ;D
Quotewhat percentage of people petition to stay AM? You must have to read a lot of "interesting" letters. I will be one.
yeah, Tiff, we'd like to hear what some of the excuses are for staying amateur. especially those who have been amateurs for more than 3 years.
just curious.
lil-thorny.
yeah, Tiff, we'd like to hear what some of the excuses are for staying amateur. especially those who have been amateurs for more than 3 years.
just curious.
yeah me too what are their excuses? personally i can't wait for that white plate and for YOU THOSE "SAND BAGGERS" as a racer im ashamed!!! if you want to be a yellow plate don't race. go do track days instead. that's my 2 cent
How do I petition being bumped??
Jeff
Tiff,
relax and be pregnant.
Benji.
Quoteyeah, Tiff, we'd like to hear what some of the excuses are for staying amateur. especially those who have been amateurs for more than 3 years.
just curious.
yeah me too what are their excuses? personally i can't wait for that white plate and for YOU THOSE "SAND BAGGERS" as a racer im ashamed!!! if you want to be a yellow plate don't race. go do track days instead. that's my 2 cent
1. 3 races.
- tell me how many experts next year have done 3 race weekends. (total)
if you are beating them, you are beating them lol no one looks at you like a noob, it only makes me more mad...
maybe you should say you have a cheater bike, then your case gets better and better :P
alright Dafan that's enuf outta you. :P
ya, that's it, it's a cheater bike... I use illegal air in my tires. ;)
......actually 2 1/4 weekends because I DNF/S 6 of 8 races at my 3rd event :-/
I would love to answer all your questions, but I think I'm just going to take Benji's advice.
Happy Turkey Week!
Greg, pretty impressive to get that many points in only 2 1/4 weekends. I thought I was doing good when I got 609 points by racing only 3 weekends. I mean 2 1/8 since I only raced one points paying class in my first weekend.
Ya I hate to word it like that, cause I know some folks only do 2-3 per weekend :-/
But it was frustrating paying for 8 races and only finishing 2. Guess that's part of racing though... :(
lessone learned: bring more spares...
OK. Someone with more than 1 race weekend under there belts please explain why you wouldn't want to go to a white plate? I am not dying to do it just yet but when I have the points then up I go. Is there some advantage to stay Yellow?
There's amateur contingency and tire $$$ up fpr grabs, as well as trophies and championships. It's easier to win as an amateur. In expert, pro riders stop by the local club weekends just to poach the contingency money. If you're not the fastest guy in the USA, you stand a better chance of being a winner in amateur.
Tiff,
My short statement would be to ask what petitions actually get turned down? Here's the long version: Clearly this guy has the points, results and # of races indicating that he has the experience and can be competitive.
Two things come to mind for me personally, he has tried to mislead to you possibly? And this guy is probably going to be better off and the series and sport will be better off. This guy is stuck trying to be a perfect amateur when he should become the expert he really already is. In the meantime, the series suffers from grids that mostly amateurs and the real amateurs tend to stay at track days from the level of competition at the current amateur events.
QuoteYa I hate to word it like that, cause I know some folks only do 2-3 per weekend :-/
But it was frustrating paying for 8 races and only finishing 2. Guess that's part of racing though... :(
lessone learned: bring more spares...
Hey I entered 8 races and only got to ride 3 laps. Lesson is bring a spare bike ::) because your A bike doesn't like running into a wall head on.
Oh ya, Greg is a CRASHER!!!!!!! :P
QuoteHere is a hypothetical question that comes up all the time. What would you say?
A racer is claiming that he has only raced 3 race weekends, however he has over 1000 points. All but 3 of his finishes were in the top 5. He beat the top 2 amateurs in the region on several occasions. After looking into his profile, I discover that he neglected to mention in his case that he not only raced last year, but placed in the top 15 out of 40+ bike grids in all of his races on what I now know was his "first" race weekend ever.
So, not only is it not this person's first season, but he has been placing quite well all year. Would you accept this petition?
By the way, in the case you guys were mentioning, that 1/4 of a weekend included four full races over both Saturday and Sunday. I would consider that a full weekend.
Ok... now I KNOW we're pointing fingers :P
Yes, I did my LCR school last Oct, and entered 4 (of what was left open) sprints on Sunday. I started dead last every race. 10/12/14/15 places. 15th because I ran off in 7 and lost 2 spots... :-/ I hardly call that a "race weekend"... but ok, I raced...
The last event wasn't 4 full races. For the record...
Sat
MWGP 2d
GTO crash
GTU DNS
Sun
Sptbk 4th
HWSS crash
UnlGP DNS
MWSB DNS
MWSS DNS
(PS. Do you all keep lap times this long? I failed, due to frustration from crashing, to get my times for the races I DID get to enter. If so, could you forward me anything via email?)
over 1000 pts? well...ok, but also consider they were all 2x pts weekends...
Fine... truth's out. Thanks for posting... :-[
Guess peanut's (and yes u too Dafan) got another 1 to fight off next year. :-X
QuoteHey I entered 8 races and only got to ride 3 laps. Lesson is bring a spare bike ::) because your A bike doesn't like running into a wall head on.
MAN do I remember that Day. You guys had past me in Deep 1 /2 and I followed up the hill but you guys were gone .When I got to the top!!!!! MAN ANd your A bike .. did u keep the motor?
QuoteTiff,
real amateurs tend to stay at track days from the level of competition at the current amateur events.
That is load of crap. I did not do one track day last year. I jumped in head first and had a blast. I don't care who is on the grid. I like learning and following, and getting lapped by the faster AMs. Well all but Dafan would hit me with his pony tail. ( LOL) I realy don't care who gos up or stays back so long as I can learn somenting new from the fast and slow guys I'm cool.
Tiffiney are you going to post an updated bump list? I didn't see my name on the first list and also sent you an e-mail inquiring about my status but haven't heard back yet. I'm in the SW region # 114.
I know this is not the correct thread, but there would not be these bump issues if you took most of the amatuer prize and contingency money away and have deeper (and more) prize and contingency money for the experts. If this was the case, you could let the rider choose when he wanted to be a white plate after a certain minimum # of points were awarded or he/she could just stay a yellow plate forever. Just my 2 cents.
Greg--I'm not sure what you mean. That wasn't about you in any way. I have three seperate letters on my desk from three different racers with this same situation. I haven't looked into your stats.
???
QuoteMAN do I remember that Day. You guys had past me in Deep 1 /2 and I followed up the hill but you guys were gone .When I got to the top!!!!! MAN ANd your A bike .. did u keep the motor?
Oh.. I thought he was talkin about me. Instead of buying "spares" I went out and started building a 'B' bike... :)
I guess being slow has its advantages. I don't have to go through all this drama! ;D
QuoteGreg--I'm not sure what you mean. That wasn't about you in any way. I have three seperate letters on my desk from three different racers with this same situation. I haven't looked into your stats.
???
I am gonna have to call you on this... ::) No way in hell someone has the EXACT same racing history, much less in the same year as I do. Besides, you even went into the top 5 in all but 3, the "fraction-of-an-event" that I, IMO, appropriately used, as well as using the magic number of "15th" from my "first" race event.
Haven't looked into my stats? Sorry... not buying it... 8)
Why do you have petitions already? I haven't got anything from you guys yet...
Tiff, you've been great so far in replying to me. Wanted to say a big thanks. I hope one of those petitions you're sitting on is from me. If not, i plan to send it in along with 04 application as you suggested earlier. Was wondering what some of the riders felt about my finishes this past yr and CCSs intention of moving me to expert. First, take notice that i received my license in Apr 03, had first race on home track (Jennings) in May 03, and have only been to Moroso 4x and have yet to step foot on third track in our region (Homestead). Here's my record to the 4 races i normally compete in at every race event.
1) 5/3 at jennings -- MWSB 4:10; MWGP 2:4; GTU 7:16; MWSS 15:17.
2) 5/25 at moroso -- MWSB 8:11; MWGP 5:9; GTU 12:19; MWSS 8:23.
3) 7/20 at moroso -- MWSB 4:11; GTU 9:20; MWSS 15:17.
4) 8/24 at moroso -- MWSB 3:13; GTU 8:23; MWSS 7:25.
5) 9/7 at jennings -- MWSB 7:16; MWGP 2:8; GTU 9:21; MWSS 9:28.
6) 9/21 at moroso -- MWSB 6:9; MWGP 3:6; GTU 10:18; MWSS 8:20.
Should i be an expert with this? 6 race events under my belt. Thankfully no crashes and i indeed seem to have improved in my finishes as the yr progressed, but after i learned that pre-registering indeed gets me a front row start. A big help in some of the SS races, where the # of riders #s 20+. It seems from this that i'm a mid-packer with consistent finishes but my no means walking away dominating any of the races. I'd like to stay amat 1 more yr, where i surely gain more experience and have a shot of making some contingency if i so happen to ride the wheels off the bike to stay ahead of riders that consistently finished in front of me and are staying amat next yr as well.
Go ahead and call--out of 5000 riders, you can't be the only one who has this race history. I don't use the board to "call out" people. And although I cannot name names of whose petition I have, I assure you, I am not talking about you. The people I am talking about aren't even in your region. I received these in Phoenix. You weren't in Phoenix, were you?
ok. ;)
and nope.
"After looking into his profile, I discover that he neglected to mention in his case that he not only raced last year, but placed in the top 15 out of 40+ bike grids in all of his races on what I now know was his "first" race weekend ever. ...Would you accept this petition? "
Rather interesting though that this was based on petitions you got at Pheonix, was it? And the coincidence that MY first event was at the end of 02, and placed top 15 out of 40+ grids...
Funny.. ??? I couldn't find 1 race in SW or PAC with a grid over 40 in 2002.
Greg, think if you grovel enough she will let you stay am. ?Are you trying to convince her you need to stay or convince yourself? I notice you are the most vocal I have seen on this board and in other threads as well. Just send in your petition and go with the flow. You can always switch to another org. ;) if it doesn't go your way and you are so convinced you don't belong in the expert class. Here is my opinion- if you are a young guy and want to try to go somewhere in this sport you might as well go expert now, it seems you have a steep learning curve. You came to Summit I think you said it was your first time there and ran up near the front. I did real well at Summit but that is the only track I raced on and did a lot of track days there. I am petitioning as well but not really expecting much.But I am an old guy (41) and don't expect to get much faster. If I go expert I prob. just won't race quite as much because it will be more expensive without a chance at contingencies. This petition thing is strange to me , I am a long time mx racer and at least in our district when you get the points you move up to the next level. How long you have been racing is irrelevant because some people might only do 2 or 3 races a year and others do 5 - 10 or more.
I guess even if she is not talking about you greg, the case may be pretty solid. So we shall have another battle at VIR next year.
Although beating me doesn't really mean you are EX material, you beat me in the first race that you ever entered :) although I rectified that situation later that weekend ;D :P
Can we get a new number for EX?? Not that I don't like my number... ;D But I'll be sure to have my app in before Jan 1.
You can bet on it man. ;) We'll have some fun. I'm done arguing the issue. At this point, I want to think she's just joking around and not an integrity issue... no Tiff, I'm not calling you a liar... but sheesh if that 1 specific post isn't obvious... ::) :P
This is why I shouldn't have even responded in the first place. I removed the post people think is about them, and I'll just stay away from this thread. I was trying to help, but instead I'm just getting accused of things that aren't true.
P.S.--That rider I am referring to raced at Daytona last fall. That was his first race, and yes, there are more than 40 bikes on a grid.
Again, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. But since you continue to defend the statement that your hypothetical petition isn't about me, I chose to research it further... I knew when I posted my last "argument" about 40+ grids in SW/PAC that "Daytona" could be your only 'rebuttal'.
At this point, according to CCS's records, I'm confident I am the only one of "5000+" racers with the exact characteristics of your "hypothetical petition/situation".
If Daytona 02 was his first race, (which is kinda odd to begin with, especially being a west coast guy) that means he started at the back... and according to you, finished top 15 of 40+ grids. But he couldn't have finished better than 5th, or he wouldn't be able to petition for 04. Well, there were less than a handfull of races of 35+ (further giving u benifit of the doubt) at Daytona in 02, and only 1 racer had top 15 in them whose hometown was anything remotely West. Since you don't name racers, I won't either... This specific racer DID race in 03. But 1. he did more than 3 events, and 2, he did NOT finish "Top 5 in all but 3 races". He DID have over 1000 points though.
But with a PI of well under .500, your "finished quite well all year" statement really doesn't apply to him.
I give up. Have I ever mentioned that I'm a part time detective.... ;D
Ok... let me chime in here. "GET OFF OF TIFFINES BACK! She is a busy person and dont have time to listen to you squabble over who she is talking about. Bottom line is if you dont want to go expert next year... then write a pitition when you renew your license. It's that friggin simple. Tiff has enough to do with out having to answer bone headed people who just want to bithc, moan, and complain because they dont want to go expert. This is not the place to pitition as Tiff has said time and time again! GET A CLUE PEOPLE !!!!
Hey Alfred, read my sig... it's not about the petition any more. >:(
Perhaps you're not even reading the posts... or you'd already understand that. ::)
Alfred??? Oh ok.... I see how you are! ;) I have been readin this post. The "get off Tiff's back" was geared toward you! The pitition issue it for those that it applies to. And the name is Mark! ;D
Tiff,
I thought I told you to relax.
doctors orders.
Benji.
Tiffiney Kelcher
Please Please Please! Hoe do you petition being bumped?
Jeff
send in a letter stating your case along with your license renewal which is still yet to arrive in the mail. If your renewal is marked expert that is.
QuoteTiff,
I thought I told you to relax.
doctors orders.
Benji.
now now you know how it is, like she can actually get any relaxation done around this time of the year.
I just sent in my petition and waited for a decision, I didn't really make a big deal out of it. If they didn't approve it, I would have happily put on white plate and went racing just as much. I just didn't feel that I was ready for the upper class. But if CCS had deemed that I was, it would have been all good.
I got knocked around once too hard in my first year (my fault) and I didn't think I was safe enough to go faster yet. But big hits (and walls) found me this year, all (in my belief) because I was racing in the AM ranks. So I think, staying down doesn't necessarily help you in ways you hope to, had I moved up, I may not have been injured (one can only specatate, uselessly)
Lets go racing...
My first race was Roc 2002 f40 started last, actually back bout 3 rows from last, I was nervous. I finished 7th. I wanted that 5th place wood :'( Woulda been cool to make expert first race out.
I don't think there should be ANY petitions if you make the points in 1 year you move up. Period. Also no dropping back. Once and expert always an expert. Se 881
I think we should keep this thread going forever!
He should've be a expert, yea he should, well I want to, what are you crazy, I don't want to, why not, because I'm not ready, but you are, nope I'm not, ok then don't it's in the rules anyway, really, what should I do, don't do it, ok I won't but maybe I should, I thought I should but last year I didn't but now I know I should have or he should have or she should have, well that's why he won so much, he didn't deserve that championship he's a sandbagger, well i don't want to get killed as a expert, well what about the slow experts that you already beat, well that's them they should have stayed, but what about the street guys like hec or jesse, I'm not like them, well i only did .1 weekends, well don't then, well maybe i should, well what about the money, there shouldn't be any money lets change the rules, ok lets, Tiff can you help us!!!
LOLLOL..... ;D
OMG... What a crack up!! ;D Hahahahahahahahahah!! That was great Peanut!! I loved it! ;) Well said!!!!!!!!
LOL! You rock, Peanut! :D
Man, what's Tiff going to do with all this cheese and whine she'll be getting? ;)
-MZGirl <--Accepting her white plate with pride. And after only 1 season! :o ;D
>:( >:( >:(
OK THIS IS TO ALL YOU BUNCH WHINNERS!!! IF YOU RACE AND FINISHES MOST TOP TENTH SPOT FOR THE SEASON DON'T MATTER IF YOU ARE FIRST YEAR OR FIFTH YEAR IF YOU GOT BUMP UP THEN LIVE WITH IT... getting sick of all you PUSSIES OUT THERE THAT DON'T WANT TO BE "EXPERT." what is the reason you want to race??? for me personally is to get that beautiful white plate and leave that yellow plate behind. if you don't want to get that white plate then "GET THE *UCKING HELL OUT OF RACING" and leave tiff alone she done so much for US racers you don't even appricated of what she done. SO FOR THOSE WHO GOT BUMP UP AND WHINS LIKE A PUSSY; YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE GET OUT OF RACE PERIOD>>>......
GET A CLUE!!! ;D ;D
I don't disagree with your frustration, but if all th whiners get out of racing, we wouldn't have a series to race in... :P
QuoteHave I ever mentioned that I'm a part time detective.... ;D
Yeah, but you're fulltime annoying...... ;D