Cherry Picking

[ronin]

 >:(Is it me or is there something wrong when a guy competes in the first race of the year on his trick ama bike, doesn't run gto all year long, then shows up on his ama bike wins gto at roc then becomes ccs champion? what about the guys who bust butt all year make all the races, get to the top? I know the rules allow it , but there needs to be a change. geoff may has no same, there is no honor in what he did.

[Ripper]

I don't know if he's a pro,but pro's should not be allowed to run any CCS event.They've got AMA and FUSA.Us poor bastards that can't afford to race nationally need a ringer to come in and run away with wood /prize money/and our 2 oz. of glory.It's a betrayal of our own organization.There should a ROC for CCS participants and separate Fusa.

[the_weggie_man]

I don't recall Geoff May being in much of any AMA results this year. But aside from that the problem lies in the fact that CCS has no qualifying procedure for ROC. You pay your money and you ride.

There needs to be a qualifying procedure that states you must ride a certain percentage of regional events to qualify for the ROC.  My thoughts are 50% should be minimum. That would help keep things honest.  But CCS has always been about money, if you can pay...you can play. Damn the fairness for the regular customer that spends their money all year.

[GAMEDIC]

Far be it from me to say this...but i think the idea of invitation ROC would be a good idea...that would take care of that...or at least help alot with it..works for other people...

[Super Dave]

In a way it can be unfair, but if Geoff didn't race that class all year long he would be at the back of the grid.

But, I'd bet that he qualified under the NRRS series for a grid position.  And grid positions are determined by points.  Sure that's not an invitation, but by attending, competing, and finishing well, you can have a better position.

If all the top riders from each region entered the ROC, then there would not be available positions for someone to just show up.  In years past, there were enough entries that those things would happen.

But again the AMA Pro thing...

Geoff is just as human as the rest of us.  There are certain criteria for an AMA license, but you still buy it.  It's not that hard to get.  I don't think that his bike is so complicated that it was what won anything.  Someone still has to ride it.  If you think it's all about the bike, then one should be able to build a bike and put any old person on it to ride and win.   Doesn't work that way.  The rider must ride well to take advantage of any advantage the bike has.

[Ripper]

Dave, the skill required to win is obvious.To win it takes rider skill, bike and preperation.Look at most pro sports and there's a limit on roster changes at the end of the season.Even in the old days in the Olympics you had to classified as an 'amature' to compete.

[bfkidd]

This is a tuff one to call. Of all the cherry picking I have seen, I think I would have to let this one go. Didn't Disalvo win some 600 races on a factory Yamaha? That is cherry picking.

I have raced against Geoff in the Southeast. Up until this year, he was just another regional fast guy. I've raced against him at the not so prestigious Roebling and Carolina. Tracks that AMA pros would not go to.

So until this year, no one would have anything against him doing what he did. I don't think he really rides the AMA. Maybe Road A because he lived there but other than that I don't recall.

I would much rather see him win than some of these other guys who I have never seen at another track besides Daytona.

Now remember, it is my classes these guys are winning in. I would have been on the front row, if not the pole for three races and second row for the other two, and I didn't even bother to show up.

Chuck

[Super Dave]

Look at most pro sports and there's a limit on roster changes at the end of the season.Even in the old days in the Olympics you had to classified as an 'amature' to compete.

Again, I'm sure he was racing the the NRRS series in GTO, so he would have qualified for ROC.

All CCS, WERA, AFM, CMRA, MRA, etc. experts are able to apply and get AMA Pro licenses.  

As for the olympics, those are games as defined by itself (Olympic Games) and Ernest Hemingway (There are only three sports: blah, blah, and motor sports.  The rest are just games.)

There is no clear separation between many experts and regular AMA Pro riders.  As there should not.  But you're not an amateur, a newbie, or a novice.

So, in 1989 when Scott Russell showed up at Blackhawk Farms with his Yoshimura Suzuki GSX600 Katana, no one complained.  It was a Suzuki Cup weekend, and we were all out to get the money just like him.

I would say that Scott was "cherry picking" if, because of his years lay off from racing, that CCS licensed him as an amateur, and he proceeded to pound everyone into oblivion in the amateur class.

[Frank_Angel]

Would it not make more sense to base a national championship on more than one race? Something like accumulated points across regions plus a season end event with qualifying/heat races? Or some other formula that rewards racers who have put in their dues all season long?

A lot can happen in just one race at the ROC, and cherry picking and just plain dumb luck can determine a national champion. Kinda dilutes the meaning of the title to me just a bit.

[am125ike]

excuse me if im too new to comment (1st yr).
 but what if the top finisher, with the most points for the season (not neccesarily the race winner) at the ROC is the class champ ???
....lets say the limit was set at 3 - 5 riders with more than 500 points or 800 points throughout the year, or the top 10 points getters that enter the race have a shot at champ, the rest of the field would only have a shot at beating the champ, they can be the race winner, but the top finisher, that is in the top ten points group in the race is champ ???
two cents...

[Super Dave]

Lots of questions...

Championships are decided regionally by class and overall.  The RACE OF CHAMPIONS is an event where riders from all the regions get to hack it out for a "national championship".  Luck, money, whatever, can all play into it.

The season was for the regional championships. ROC is different.

Frank, what you're saying is kind of like how WERA used to do it.  I don't know if they do it now.  GNF, Grand National Final, is kind of the same thing.  Suzuki Cup, Suzuki World Cup, the former Honda Challenge Series, etc.  

To me, personally, I believe that a whole season of races really determines a championship performance, rather than one race.  But ROC is fun.

This overall championship thing by region is goofy.  Everyone should have a reasonable chance for it, but if you have certain bikes, you cannot "compete" because you cannot enter enough classes.  Or you don't have the money to race nine classes a weekend, let alone pay for the tires....

[GAMEDIC]

Hmmm...maybe i have seen this before somewhere..but why not take the top 10 or 15 in points for each region..let them be the only ones to compete in ROC and the winner be the national champ...sounds pretty simple...and yeah yeah someone is going to bitch about it cause they were faster than the guy that got to go just above them..boo hoo...try harder next year....and i know you are going to say well what about the people that can't race every race...well i'm one of them and this is how i feel..if i am looking to shoot for the national champ position well i know that i need to be at every race..or if i am not at every race i need to finish really good at the ones i do go to..so then it becomes how bad you want it....and then you got the guys that can race every race that are not that fast but still get enough points to go to ROC..well big deal...if they are not that fast then you would not have to worry about them being 1st...so if you are just doing this for fun..which i am..i don't see me in 1st any time soon...but if you are doing it for fun..then what do you care about the guys that go to all the races and get points...i know i don't..now when i feel i can have a shot at 1st..well then i will be sure and make it to every race...until then people should not complain..and i think this is the way ROC should be done..it works for other Orgs...why not this one..and some may be a little different..but not alot....hell take AMA doesn't mater who you are if you get enough points you are the #1 plate holder for AMA....no matter who you race against..or how many races you go to.....well that is my $.02

[YTAK_Racing]

If he were a full factory guy and had unlimited resourses I'd say he's a cherry picker.  He is just a guy thats in the middle ranks trying to get sponcership. He's not a club racer nor does he have a deal that makes him a living.

From what I know of him, he's doing everything he can to make it to that next level.  I personally wish him the best of luck.

Jon Wuytack

[Super Dave]

HooAh, Jon!

You've hit it on the head!

[Eric Kelcher]

I think of the ROC as racing against the BEST. It is not a select few that can run it anyone can show up. You proved yourself against the best in the world as they were all invited.

As far as a heat race etc to determine grid postion that is done (in a way), you run the regional races (heat races) and that determines your grid postion for the final championship race.