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Author Topic: The cost of racing...  (Read 2323 times)

GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2010, 09:54:10 AM »
I'll rephrase what I meant by credit being the enemy, because debt is definitely one of the major reasons people stop racing. If your starting a new race season, and you still have debt from your last race season(s), then your sinking. Unless that debt has no interest being charged, that debt's effects are also exponential. If your paying for your racing 'as you go' then it will limit how much you can spend on racing. That's why I switched to a 'pay cash as I go' route to racing, but doing that while I still had this massive amount of credit debt hanging over my head was very difficult and required me to cut back on racing costs. As I mentioned before, I chose to eliminate tire costs in order to keep racing, I literally (without exaggeration) have used each pair of race tires I bought over the last decade for 2 YEARS (or more). Also, I was running multiple classes during the entire Midwest schedule plus Daytona (sometimes spring and fall) on those tires, but of course I was always at the back of the pack as a result. The few times that I've bought tires in the last decade I've had the different tire guy's say the same thing everytime: "So you decided to switch back to our tires?". My response is always the same as well: "I never switched, these are still the same tires I bought from you 2+ years ago".

Some people are in situations that can get, or have the skills to acquire, sponsership and/or financial support much easier than others, for those who never have that support the bill is footed exclusively by their own paycheck. I've covered the entire cost for me to go racing since I took my licensing school in '95, the only 'support' I recieved was a discount on the bikes I bought and on the occasional parts I purchased from a specific dealership (which I appreciated). For those in situations like myself I think the possibility of credit debt is far greater than those who get support from whatever source. My suggesting to stay away from credit as much as possible is based on personal experience and seeing what's happened to others as well - take it for what it's worth.  :thumb:
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Jeff

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2010, 12:46:33 PM »
My biggest rant about cost is when it rains and there are certain riders would will not run in the rain but are registered for a race atleast come to the grid. there were several times last year that riders did not show to the grid a screwed the rest of the field out of $$$. If you dont want to run atleat show up to hot pit so the grid marshalls can check you off

Unless something changed, it doesn't quite work out that way.  The (way it used to be and may still be) contingency sponsors get the FINISH results...  And if you don't complete X number of laps (I think it's at least one), you don't even get counted for a DNF.  So if 50 people showed up for the marshall but only 4 ran, the score sheet would have 4 bikes on it...
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K3 Chris Onwiler

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2010, 05:58:43 PM »
Rubbing paint with guys like Bill Hitchcock, Brian Weber, Mike Chachare, Billy Casper, David Vaughn, K3, Rob Borowicz, on and on and on...  Most all of us on bikes that we hoped would hold together, tires which had far too much wear and were only as warm as the ambient temperature of the day, pump gas, and leathers held together with duct tape. 

Jeff, I'm honored to be included in this post.  That was indeed a magnificent era and you captured it well!
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K3 Chris Onwiler

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2010, 06:39:38 PM »
I'll add some thoughts which have been going through my own head lately.  I raced Sunday at Blackhawk.  It was the first time in several years that I'd done a club race, although I got a dream shot to ride Mid Illini Motorsports' bikes in AMA's MotoGT class last year.  I've been pretty much a dedicated trackday coach since 2004, so I see both sides.

At a trackday, the only way you can lose is to wad your bike or get hurt.  At a race, the only way to win is to beat everyone else.  So what does that mean to the average racetrack rider?

Trackdays are huge fun.  Find the group you fit into and go ride like you never legally could on the street.  If others are faster, it really doesn't matter.  The run-watcha brung format allows for plenty of excuses when you get passed.  (He has a literbike, he has suspension, he has slicks, whatever...)

Racing.  Hmmm....  It's all good when you start out.  Just being involved is a complete rush!  Back in the day, I ran in fields of 20, 30 or even more bikes.  Pulling a 19th place on my lightweight bike in a middleweight field of 35 at Gateway after starting last was a huge accomplishment for me!  Getting my first top ten in lightweight was equally incredible.  Then I got wood.  It was only a fifth place but that plaque reset the bar.  From then on, no wood meant failure.  It got worse.  I wanted a championship.  Within my limited means, I spent every second of my life outside work and every dollar I could scrounge on racing in pursuit of my goals.  It turned into war.  The joy of just being involved was replaced by the burning obsession of achieving success.  I eventually obtained the race wins and championships I was after but the ordeal burned my soul to a crisp.  In five years, I was emotionally finished.  The jump to expert was especially hard on me.  I lacked the funding to have a competitive setup and even if one had been provided to me, I just wasn't fast enough to be a winner if my bike carried a white plate.  That more than anything else broke my heart and spirit.

Trackday coaching was medicine.  I could help newcomers learn about the sport and ride as much as I could stand.  I always did well in the impromptu "Instructor Derbys" that seem to occur toward the end of a weekend and that was enough to keep me happy.  I thought I was cured.  Then Mitch Stien offered me the MotoGT opportunity.  HO LEE SHNIT!  I was in no way ready for that!  In the month I had before my first AMA race, I coached nothing but advanced and rode like my life depended on it.  I found all I'd lost and more.  When I got to MotoGT, I did not embarrass myself.  It was a good feeling.

This year, I've coached a lot but spent part of each weekend riding for myself, working to keep my skills sharpened.  This has been my fastest year.  I've raced at Gateway and Blackhawk.  No trophies but when I looked at the machines which beat mine, I saw 20K vs 4K and didn't feel too bad, especially when I looked at some of the very nice bikes that I managed to beat.  Now I'm thinking that I need to run a few races each year in addition to the coaching, if only to remember who I am.  The racer in me had been asleep for some time but now I feel it again.  You know what?  It feels good now!

Racing myself into spiritual ruin was not a good thing.  At least I didn't let that be accompanied by financial ruin.  The lesson I see from my own path is one of balance.  When the sport stops being fun and becomes a holy crusade, it's time to back off or if you can't do that, quit.

Trackdays are awesome fun!  They are not racing.  The polite pass will eventually drive a racer crazy.  When you race, any piece of asphalt you can get to first is yours.  THAT is the most enjoyable aspect of competition.  "Winning" a trackday is a hollow victory.  Beating some other racer straight up for fifth place at a club race is far more satisfying.  I'd forgotten that.

Some trackday riders will never have the necessary desire to make the jump to racing, just as some canyon riders will never take it to the track.  If you have the desire, go racing.  Do it on nickles and dimes if necessary but just do it.  Try not to get sucked into the success vortex and just enjoy competition for the thrill it brings you.  This is my goal for the future.  I will not let another year go by without competing occasionally.  I'll lose gracefully and savor my victory over those I've beaten.  I won't let it consume me like it once did.  Dammit!  Racing is fun!  I'm not going to lose sight of that again.
The frame was snapped, the #3 rod was dangling from a hole in the cases, and what was left had been consumed by fire.  I said, "Hey, we've got all night!"
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Speedballer347

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2010, 08:19:52 PM »
  It's all good when you start out.  Just being involved is a complete rush!  ... From then on, no wood meant failure.  The joy of just being involved was replaced by the burning obsession of achieving success. 


I just wasn't fast enough to be a winner if my bike carried a white plate.  That more than anything else broke my heart and spirit.

Great write up Kris!  8)

I went from a fast amatuer who had a crappy day if I didn't podium, to a sloth of an expert, who had no fun.  It was a futile attempt at every race.  Disappointment and crumbling confidence everytime out.

Did track days for more than a few years after hanging it up, and came back this year.
Still one of the slowest on the grid, but I am now all right with that, and am finally having fun again out there.  Modest investment, but still worth evey penny this year.
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MACOP1104

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2010, 07:00:29 AM »
Great write up.  After a 7 year break, I started racing again.  I race within my means.  I have a modest set up and I race lightweight.  I pull my small enclosed trailer with my daily driver pick up.  I have 2 bikes which cost me less then 8k combined.  I use pump gas and bring all my food to the track and sleep in the trailer which has an AC unit.  Still, racing is not cheap.  A weekend costs me $500-$600 if I don't need tires.  Add $360 to that if I need a set.  Last year, I did nothing but track days to get back into it.  My 1st race weekend this year made me realize nothing compares to gridding up to race...

Ducmarc

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2010, 08:46:27 PM »
yeah, the first time someone tries to take your front tire out in practice you realize this is not a track day  lol.

majicMARKer

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2010, 07:12:38 AM »
yeah, the first time someone tries to take your front tire out in practice you realize this is not a track day  lol.

You were watching Charlie?
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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2010, 07:23:14 AM »
Great write up.  After a 7 year break, I started racing again.  I race within my means.  I have a modest set up and I race lightweight.  I pull my small enclosed trailer with my daily driver pick up.  I have 2 bikes which cost me less then 8k combined.  I use pump gas and bring all my food to the track and sleep in the trailer which has an AC unit.  Still, racing is not cheap.  A weekend costs me $500-$600 if I don't need tires.  Add $360 to that if I need a set.  Last year, I did nothing but track days to get back into it.  My 1st race weekend this year made me realize nothing compares to gridding up to race...

That sounds like the way to go and familiar to my own racing program. I must say though you must be including everything like food and ice. I use race fuel only because the higher compression pistons require it. So, $185 for 2 races and practice all day on Saturday. $30 gate fee for the weekend. $70 for fuel. Right now about $200 average for tires placing second twice(thank you Michelin), $485 so far before food which I was gonna eat anyway. Travel expenses which I would have probably attended to watch. Room and board which I stay at home because I am close enough to the track, or $125 if I must drive to Jennings GP(6 hour drive).

Some things to consider: With the lightweight classes as light as they are, consider Continental tires that pay regardless of how many are on the grid. Finish top 5 and you get tire money. I like the Michelin brand allowing me resullts gaining me enough money each weekend out in Ultralight. Gt Lights I am outclassed when riding my Ducati 800.

Mark
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Jeff

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2010, 07:34:50 AM »
Jeff, I'm honored to be included in this post.  That was indeed a magnificent era and you captured it well!

Magnificent indeed...  I'm just sorry there are so many who we shared it with that I left off and just don't remember.  Guys like Ike, Sean Wyatt, Edgar Dorn, Anthony Connor.  Hell, Andy Feursthaler(sp??) and I ran our amateur year together.  I was there when Ortega came out onto BHF for the first time.  Bastard stuffed me in 3D and I returned the favor in 6.  And the latter years with Johnny Petta, Greg Langman, etc.

The list of riders I've shared pavement with is a mile long, and at that one level, we're brothers & a few sisters...

Good times man....  Good times...
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Ducmarc

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2010, 04:37:58 PM »
i was thing about how to lower costs especially in lightweight  how about a class index as much as i disliked it in drag racing that is probably what saved sportsman racing in the 70's  if it were not for bracket racing the local level would be dead. i thoght  3 class levels all running on a track index   except   unlimited    lightweight would be like 5 seconds under the record  middleweight 2 seconds and unlimited no index .  you could keep safety rules and throw out the rest of the rule book.  you ride under the index on any lap and your DQ ed   you still have to be first to finsh but be under the index. that way you enter anybike you want in any class .  no crying on who's got what if you want to run a gixer 1000 in lightweight and you suck riding fine . if you think you can win in middleweight on an SV fine   that way if you don't have to buy the latest bike on the planet to try and collect a cup.   and if your a rising star witha pocket full of cash go unlimited or join the AMA   we all cry about the it works now but no one wants to change anything.  look at track days    slow medium fast same thing.   for differant races during the day change the amount of laps   like 5 lap 10 lap15 lap .   i we want to keep people riding make it to where you don't have to buy a 20k bimota and 3 sets of tires every weekend in lightweight just to win a cup.

Burt Munro

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2010, 05:54:13 PM »
Hey K3 Chris Onwiler....   nice writeup.

You should think about writing a book!   :kicknuts:

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2010, 08:35:13 PM »
Marc,
 What are you thinking, $20K for a Bimota try $34K now that everyone wants one. The Bimota is good but I think your ebay special Ducati 748 is the way. It is what it is where some guys or gals have the money and maybe they need that bike. I found myself this past weekend keeping up pretty close to those guys with my Ducati 800.

That $50K SV built by Prieto would certainly give them a run for the money.
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K3 Chris Onwiler

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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2010, 10:18:46 PM »
Me likey index racing idea!  That could really work for a guy who rides well but is... um... BIG.
The frame was snapped, the #3 rod was dangling from a hole in the cases, and what was left had been consumed by fire.  I said, "Hey, we've got all night!"
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Re: The cost of racing...
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2010, 07:29:19 AM »
The index idea has some merit.  Though would you find someone sandbagging that is capable of riding the same consistent lap time lap after lap?  Also, if someone jams on the brakes at the line that could cause a whole heap of problems.  It may be worth some investigating as it would help those without the means to buy the latest and greatest be competitive.
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ECU Reflashing at Superbike Toy Store!