T14 Crash @ RA, Sunday Race #6 (MWSS)

[JonGu]

3rd? Really? I remember Paul Onley bumping into my rear in race 4 on Sunday (from the sound of it, I thought I was past him but actually wasn't and moved over into his line on the brakes) but can't remember a 3rd incident where I made contact w/ anyone. Unless you are counting my big endo in turn 5 on Friday of course, but that was all me

[YellowRacer]

Man sucks to see anyone crash... But I have to say...Awesome pictures!!

Hope you two have a speedy recovery!!!

[d!ll]

So you took out three people racing this weekend - WTF - are you kidding? 

[JonGu]

Lol no, if I took out 3 people I'd go sell all my shit and give the whole thing up. I did take Aaron out obviously from this post. Paul and I bumped but it was pretty gentle (at least from my perspective) and he still made the corner w/o having to run off, and as far as a 3rd incident... I honestly don't have a clue what we are talking about.

I did have an unusually bad weekend as far as crashing goes. Took myself out on Friday GTL with a huge endo, and then I go and run into Aaron on Sunday. In about 30-40 races so far this season, these have been my only real legitimate crashes.

I did have 3 more crashes earlier in the season - 1 where I dropped it on the first lap of practice because I stupidly went out on a 3 yr old takeoff after putting a new front end on my SV and not changing the tire, barely leaned over 1 degrees before it dropped at like 20mph. 2nd, I looped the bike on the start and dropped it. 3rd crash of the year the brake fluid boiled and locked up my brakes on the SV. But none of these were really racing crashes the way my 2 crashes at RA were. To go from fairly incident free to crashing myself out twice a weekend really is a big shock.

[HAWK]

Jon and I bumped going into 6, he took me on the brakes on the inside and then moved over on me to set up for the corner. This happened at the crest and my back wheel was very light so the bump set me into a weave which I couldn't stop in time to turn in so I had to turn in rather late but I did make the corner. Jon and I talked about it later and we're both good with the way we left it.

[Burt Munro]

Hawk and Jon,

Good to know you two were on the spot to talk about it post-race and leave it as racing.  Knowing both of you, I would expect you to handle it in a 1st class manner, like you did! 


Rick

[Grashopr]

I've been racing around Jon all year, and I've never felt like he was doing anything out of line..  looks like it was a bad weekend for him.  Moreso for Aaron though.  Heal quick buddy.  Get some of that bone stuff Super's been talking about.  It worked great for my elbow. 

Phil

[Cyklracer]

Okay, I've got to call bull shit here.  Jon I'm sorry - you're a good guy around the paddock, but you're a f*cking a$$ on the track.  I know of a few folks who called bull shit on the kind of passing you do in a club race, and I called you to the mat on it face-to-face before.  This is club racing, and most of us would rather go to work on Monday than get crashed out racing for a $5 plaque.  Shit like diving inside someone and taking their line at the apex or cutting across another riders wheel is just not good racing, whether it's a money event expert level race or a lightweight AM event.

To have ass packed Aaron hard enough to send your bikes flying like that is not something that should have happened from him braking a bit early for a corner.  I know you're sorry for what happened, but you're dangerous on the track and need to back things off a bit.  Better to finish down a place than to not finish and take out another racer in the process.

Don't know Aaron, but my best wishes to him for a speedy recovery.

[bel-biv]

Sweet 8lb 7oz baby Jesus - That looks F-ing horrific!
Glad everyone is ok, or will be.
I hope that whatever lessons can be learned - have been

wow

[JonGu]

Wow ok... let me get the straight...

Passing someone on the inside on the brakes is not cool because block passing is too aggressive
Passing someone on the inside when they take a wider line is not cool because stuff passing is too aggressive
Passing someone on the outside on the brakes and then turning in in front of them is not cool because chopping off their front wheel is too aggressive
Passing someone on the outside midcorner is not cool because it forces them to roll off, takes away their drive and is too aggressive
Following someone closely to draft them is not cool because you might crash into them if they mess up

Well, I thought we were racing, but I guess I was wrong. I didn't realize we were trying to follow NESBA's Beginner group passing rules. I'd like to be that nice, but not everyone has the benefit of an extra 25hp over their competition to keep the passing on the straights.

[Noidly1]

Passing in the corners during a race is fine as long as you keep it clean ...

[benprobst]

Passing in the corners during a race is fine as long as you keep it clean ...

thanks for clearing that up.





Ohh, and I think there are 3 kinds of clean passing, CLEAN, clean, and clean. For me, CLEAN is for trackdays, where you dont really trust who you are passing, especially if they are non racers. You know the type, blow bye passes in the braking zones, squaring corners off and coming underneath while the slower rider is headed torwards the curb etc.. Clean is for your every day racing, running rear to mid of the pack at a simple regional. Things may get a little tight here and there, but all in all no one is in too much danger of contact or crashing into someone else. Then there is clean passing which is reserved for front of the pack, making a pass that really matters when you need to make something stick. When your running at the front of the pack, especially when you are down on horsepower, sometimes you just need to stick it under someone to get the pass done. When you have 3 guys running within the same second per lap, super clean stuff isnt always available. Sounds like maybe Jon is pulling some clean passes when clean would do, but all in all its racing not badmitten, and while his stuff sounds agressive, nothing sounds out of place. When you get out of the lw am  and have to deal with the big boys up front, or the big boys coming from behind to get up front you need to be comfortable with stuff you may not think is clean enough.

Anyway, if anyone actually understood that, its my two cents.

[HAWK]

Ben, just one question. How much contact do you consider acceptable? Up front at a regional club race?

[Scotty Ryan]

My view on passing is along these lines: Passing is Passing(Riding in control) - If you T-Bone someone - That isn't passing(not in control) - That's riding like a moran. If you intentionally ride like a moran - You shouldn't be racing....

This is not at all directed toward anyone - I know both Jon and Aaron pretty good - I am just making a generalized statement....

I may look at this passing thing differently then most - If I trust someone that I am racing with - I expect them to pass me close - inside - Outside and if they have been at this sport for a while - they may even do some things that I haven't seen......

Coming from Motocross - I am used to close aggressive passes... I make em' and I hope not to offend anyone - But it is what it is.....

Allot of people get upset with Nate Kern for the passes he makes - and I have raced with Nate and  found nothing that he did uncalled for.... Actually I made some sketchy passes on him - and we are still good friends.....

2 Cents from me - weather you wanted it or not :)

[Farmboy]

Ben, just one question. How much contact do you consider acceptable? Up front at a regional club race?

My 2 cents:

You can contact me all you want, as long as you don't punt me or knock me down. Hell, smack me on the ass as you (try to) go by; we'll have a good laugh about it afterwards.

I've been ass-packed before, and I was pissed as all hell, but it was at a track day, and I was rider coaching to boot. It cost me over 10 grand between lost wages, medical bills, and equipment damages. I was considerably less than pleased, but there is a huge difference between being taken out by an intermediate idiot at a track day and making contact during a race. I know that when I'm out there, I'm out there with one goal; to try and win (hasn't happened yet..) I try to pass nice, and I have some motor, so I'm usually able to do it, but I still have no prob whatsoever showing up at the apex of a slower corner and taking a line. And if someone has the cojones to do the same to me, I usually congratulate them privately, in my helmet, and in person after the race, because that's the whole point, isn't it?

Having said that, I wouldn't be totally thrilled if I were totally steamrolled out there, but it's a risky sport, and I accept those risks. When I'm no longer willing to do so, I'll take up golf. If I ever had (have) an incident with any of you guys, I think I'd have to just chalk it up to good racing. I respect your abilities, but more importantly, I respect your desire to win. I also acknowledge the potential for mistakes and mishaps.I don't know Aaron, but I've known Jon for years, and while he may or may not be pushing a little hard for the overall championship, he's a good guy, and a very good rider. I'd race him anytime, and feel completely comfortable about it. 

Having said all that, best wishes and speedy recovery to both Aaron and Jon.

Oh, and I'm hoping I ride well enough in a few weeks that I'll be so far in the lead I won't even have to worry about you maniacs..