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Author Topic: 08 LW class rules  (Read 17359 times)

HAWK

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2007, 12:07:38 PM »
You ULWSB guys and gals need to get together, ALL of you, and send a message to CCS ( Eric.Kelcher@ccsracing.us ) loud and clear that you oppose this change. Backlash last year moved the R1200S prevented the R1200S from competing  in LWSS. Change is possible if you show management there is a need but you need to make your voices heard.
Paul Onley
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truckstop

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2007, 12:13:22 PM »
Like I mentioned, I think I'm as upset as I am, because this was completely unexpected. I'm curious to see what the actual rules will state, and what the prep level of the new bikes allowed in the class will be. I'm *hoping* that they'll be no more than SS spec, and that SB spec SVs will stay in LWSB.

I'm guessing that any of the SV riders that had issues with Buells being LW bikes didn't intend to be dropped down a class, but it still would have been nice to know that this was the route that was being considered.

Edit: Thanks Paul, it's good to know that there may be some recourse.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 12:15:06 PM by truckstop »

funsizeracing

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2007, 12:23:30 PM »
This is very unexpected.  I guess the final decsion will be made when they print the rule books?
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majicMARKer

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2007, 12:29:59 PM »
Does the SV still hold the lap record at Daytona (AMA course) for the Thunderbike class? And it is now a Ultra light bike? This doesn't make sense. I could understand the argument to not allow the F2 into the Lightweight SS classes and maybe even the  LW SB but to make the SV legal for Ultralight SB seems ridiculous. I would have loved to see that SV proposal because the same goes for the F2 into LW.

Dave any comments?

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2007, 12:41:57 PM »
Why not bump the Buells and Ducs up to MW and allow SB specs?  That seems like less of a stretch.
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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2007, 12:51:34 PM »
Yep.  Don't agree with the direction this is pointing to for LW at all.  Going to need 90 - 100HP to play soon?
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HAWK

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 01:09:07 PM »
Unfortunatly I believe the 2 bikes driving this rule change will make the cost of being competitive in LW more than MW. Kind of a change of role.
Paul Onley
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Super Dave

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2007, 01:19:45 PM »
Which bikes?


I don't know of any place where there is a list of proposals other than just popping them up someplace.

I have proposed running grids by points for years, but I will admit that I became tired of trying to drum up support for a lot of road racing things for a few reasons.  One, it's hard to generate support for effective change with riders that rotate out in a matter of two to four years.  Second, club racing is what it is.  It's participant driven, but it could be better. 

I'm still mad that races at Blackhawk Farms Raceway, where there have been four to six rounds of CCS regional racing every year for over ten years, gets no written coverage support.  As a CCS operated region, this is what supports a lot of what doesn't make money in the nation.


Back to the approval stuff...

Just stating "approved" doesn't say to much.  Until there's an actual list of the new rules structure, things are kind of on the edge.  Additionally, there might be other rules that we don't know anything about.  For several years, CCS rules for fuel was written in a way that made pump gasoline illegal for CCS competition. 

I don't know when we'll see rules, maybe someone from the office would leak and info out, I don't know. 
Super Dave

HAWK

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2007, 01:34:06 PM »
I think LW was pretty stable till the BMW and DUC popped up last year. There was quite a little firestorm about that which ended up seeing the BMW outlawed in LWSS but the current SV riders might consider that this rule change may well find the BMW moving into the LWSS class as well.

Like was mentioned, 95+HP to be able to run in LW? Then what is that going to do to reliability?

Of course the SVs will probably remain competitive in LW for a couple years but the damage to ULW will be done overnight.
Paul Onley
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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2007, 01:51:23 PM »
Unfortunatly I believe the 2 bikes driving this rule change will make the cost of being competitive in LW more than MW. Kind of a change of role.

Middleweight bikes are probably the most over-engineered vehicles available today.  It makes sense that building competetive machines out of less engineered/refined design is going to be expensive.  In the same respect, it follows that engineer/mechanic/tinkerer types are going to be drawn to the LW classes, while the MW classes are (and will continue to be) comprised of less "handy" racers.

I guess I'm biased because I race one of the "cheater" bikes... but if I look only at the results from this year I would be convinced that the SV is the dominate bike because it dominated every class it is legal for!

Obviously, some SV's racers won't be happy until they have a spec. class!  Which is what the Ultra-light will become with the inclusion of super-biked SV's

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2007, 02:15:42 PM »
I don't have a ton of history on this topic but.....Moving the SVs to ULWSB doesn't make much sense to me.  I have seen them race with Buells and be competitive.  Guess what I am saying is that  HP doesn't always win races.  Understanding that boundaries need to be set.  But what, is MOTO-ST going to have a 4th class as well.   Or what about a competitive 450 Supermoto, seen them run well, just look at Hallet this year with Eslick.
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Super Dave

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2007, 02:36:07 PM »
Oh, yeah, you had to bring up the Supermoto bikes...LOL!

I believe that they are in UlwSB, right?  I smell an additional class coming on.
Super Dave

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2007, 02:40:20 PM »
I started racing in ULW and progressed to LW but it had nothing to do with being a tinkerer, I did it because I didn't see jumping into deep end as a logical starting point. For the record I am an SV rider, I oppose the moving of SVs to ULW and while I see the SV slipping in comparison to the current bikes coming into LW I have no problem with that. If you do some searching on this forum you will find that I supported the inclusion of the BMW and DUC in LW last year ( http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,14589.15.html ) and my position has not changed on that. I point out that the BMW may find it's way into to  LWSS ranks to try and motivate the current SV riders to also oppose this rule change as it will not only creat a spec class for the SVs in ULW it will also set the stage for their exit from LW. I'm not looking to push the BMW or the DUC out of LW, I would like to avoid seeing the current ULW class destroyed.

As far as the SV moving to ULWSB, 90HP is easy on a superbike SV while 70 is playing with a live granade for most the the ULWSB croud. I would like to see the ULW crowd given a little warning, some of these guys have spent time and money on bikes that will be annihilated by this move, let them know that this is comming in 2009 and that they should make some decisions.
Paul Onley
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L8brake731

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2007, 02:48:19 PM »
My 2 cents....

If there was a semantic change in the rule book from "water cooled" to "liquid cooled" it would place BMW where they should be. Since they are "dual cooled".

If I were in ULWSB, I'd be pissed too! Oh yeah, now I am.

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Re: 08 LW class rules
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2007, 03:24:09 PM »
I don't think the new BMW was an issue in LW.  It wasn't in the parameters, correct?  Or was there a slight modification of the cc's for twins from 2006 to 2007.
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