First time TC

[DavidV]

I have many questions. If anyone could answer any of these I would be happy

Do all the different TC classes (GTU, GTO etc) run at the same time? (different wave?)

Will a 2001 gsxr600 be semi-competitive in GTU? Not looking to win, just looking to keep the pace? Don't want to be a rolling chicane

I've never done a TC before. If you run 1:45's in sprint races at VIR  (my best lap trying my hardest), should you aim for that in the TC? Or should you back off a little and reserve?

When you pit in, how do they handle pit out? I'm assuming it's similar to a stop and go , the grid marshall tells you when it's ok to head back out?

How many laps would one get on a gsxr 600 with a full tank?

Thanks

[Super Dave]

Everyone races at the same time.

In endurance racing, "anything" is competitive.  It's about putting down good, consistent laps.  The fields get jumbled up, and there's constant traffic, so you're not going to be anything different than everything that's going on.

If you can run your pace consistently at a little off your fastest times, that would be good.  Keeps you sharp and consistent, and it does conserve tires and fuel just a little bit.  You always want to have some physical strength available too, don't forget. 

Pit in, Pit out.  It's racing.  Come in, get out.  You're gonna have to watch a little for what's coming. 

Fuel mileage?  I usually try to figure between 12 to 17MPG.  Longer track with lots of WFO, lower mileage.  VIR is kind of in between.  You might get 14+ even at a fast pace.  With 1:45's, you'll get better mileage. 

Hopefully, that helps...

[LilJayRR]

Like Dave said, just about anything is competitive. An 01 GSXR600 would be fine IMHO.

You should hold something back or you will be pretty tired. You cant't go all out 100% of the time for that long, or at least I know I sure can't.

The GTO, and GTU class is a Team Challenge IE. 2 rider team (usually, could be more) with 1 mandatory rider change. There is also the Solo Challenge, kinda like ironman racing!! and they all race at the same time.

The pit road is considered part of the race track and is 'hot' during the race. You will have bikes flying! coming in for pit stops.

Fuel mileage shouldn't be too much of an issue. Start the race with a full tank, when you do your rider change do a fill up at the same time. Or if you are doing the Solo race come in at the 1/2 mark or so and do a gas and go!

Also if you are going to do the Endurance race bring a few people with you to the track to help in the pit or grab some of your racing Buddy's to help.. Oh and also you need a fire extinguisher in your pit during the race, and maned while fueling.

[zeroice]

If it's just you, and you can't find someone to ride your bike with you, do the Solo. The solo has no rules as far as machines go, ride what you brung essentially.

The Team is divided into 3 classes, GTO, GTU, GTL with an overall points award + purse. Minimum of 2 riders where the 2nd rider has to do at least one lap. Rider change must happen during a green flag, not red flag or it doesn't count.

All classes, Solo, Team (GTO, GTU, GTL) run at the same time. Race is over when the 1st rider completes 250km or reaches the specified time limit, whichever comes first. Time limit is somewhere between 2~2.5 hrs. rule book specifies 2 hrs but I guess at some tracks you can't complete 250km in that time, so the time is calculated based on some average lap times of last year? not quite sure but thats how it is.


No speed limit in the pits. No stop n go unless you are black flagged or meat balled. The faster you go, the better, just don't run your fuel guy over like I almost did yesterday.

During a re-fuel, engine can stay running, rider can be on bike and bike doesn't have to be on stand. Unlike the Wera National Endurance series (bike must be on stand, rider must be off and engine must be off). It is mandatory that you have at least one 10lb fire extinguisher (pin pulled) pointed at the fueling orofice. Two 5lb extinguishers will also do. Have a towel ready to wipe fuel spatter or in case of a spill.


During red flags you can refuel or work on the bike.

Any crew member over the wall (in the hot pit) working on bike (fuel, extinguisher, tire change) needs to have long pants and sleeves (at least short sleeves) and closed toed shoes. Exeptions are timers/scorers/pit board/umbrella girls. Failure to comply will result in a stop and go (meat ball) or losing one lap.

have at least one crew member pit side to do your fueling. A lot of times another team will help with holding a fire extinguisher for you but don't count on it-so its best to have 2 crew members dedicated for the length of the race.

Have someone keep an eye on you and a clock, make sure you come around consistently. Work on communication rules, hand or leg signals. If you dont have a nice pit board, a 36x18 white board + block marker can help communicate.

Also, when you pit, if you don't have tear-offs on your visor, have some windex wipes ready to clean your wind screen + visor. A big bug to your visor can seriously impair your vision.

And finally, if you do the solo challenge, wear a hydration system like a camelbak (not sure how its spelled). Some of the newer suits have hydration systems built into the hump. Keep the mouthpiece in your mouth at all times.

Any bike will do as long as it is reliable. What's important is consistency and physical fitness.

Most races can be done without a tire change unless you run a 1000cc machine or have a superbike.




I'll be happy to answer anymore questions if you have them... so feel free!

[DavidV]

great info guys, thanks!

Where can I find a hydration backpack system?

I know what tears offs are, but can they be layered? Meaning can I put one tear off on top of each other? That way when I tear one off, another one is there? Or does this blur stuff up?

What is the average amount of times people need to refuel on 600cc machines?
I am thinking about doing the solo challenge. It does indeed sound like an ironman contest.

Krishna, thanks for the detailed post!

[zeroice]

Where can I find a hydration backpack system?

You can get one at REI or EMS or Dicks sporting goods. Also the dirt bike catalogs have them too like Tucker Rockey (thats where I got mine). Camelbak works well But after a race or two the mouthpiece get damaged from bitting on it too hard due to intense situations. If you have a hookup and can get dealer pricing on items from Tucker rockey, thats the cheapest way to go. Get a small one and wear it outside your leathers.

I know what tears offs are, but can they be layered? Meaning can I put one tear off on top of each other? That way when I tear one off, another one is there? Or does this blur stuff up?

I usualy just layer 2. Some nice kits come with up to 7 layers but are expensive and cumbersome. If you aren't careful you'll tear all of them off. Usualy I get a cheap generic brand and just use 2 and cut notches out of them to form un upper tab and lower tab. That way I pull the top first then the bottom second. It is also a good idea to use 4 pieces of clear tape to hold it onto your visor even though you have the tear-off tabs. use tape on each layer or they might come off on their own if you look back on the straight. I'll get you pictures of mine when I get home from work...

What is the average amount of times people need to refuel on 600cc machines?
I am thinking about doing the solo challenge. It does indeed sound like an ironman contest.

Do your homework. Its different for every track. A good trackday at near race pace will help you determine fuel consumption. Some teams perfer to do it by number of laps, some do it by time. I do it by time.
But I'd say on average, it is anything from 45minutes to 1 hr depending on tank size and average speed & throttle position used at track

Krishna, thanks for the detailed post!

your welcome!

[Garywc]

well Krishna about summed it up for you

but as far as fuel  I still have my fuel light working and i will try to run the race till it comes on which so far this year it has been after the half way point

[DavidV]

How does pitting in work? Do I take the race line and then haul ass into the pits?  Or do I do it the traditional way (get off line, slow down, hand out, safely pull in)

Do you guys run the same type of tires you do in sprint races? (ie: blue / green pirelli). Or do you opt for the harder compounds?

How many solo entries are there usually? I have seen past TC results and it looks like about an average of 20 per class?

[zeroice]

Gary's fuel light works. My fuel gage is broken... So I need someone to show me the time. You can also use an el cheapo wrist watch on your triple clamp to tell the time. Experiment and do that which you are most comfortable with.

How does pitting in work? Do I take the race line and then haul ass into the pits?  Or do I do it the traditional way (get off line, slow down, hand out, safely pull in)

Use your judgement. If you can haul ass and get into the pit without slowing down or creating a dangerous situation, go as fast as you can. It's still courteous to hang a foot out or give something of a hand. It all really depends on the track and pit config. If you do have to cross the race line or must occupy the race line at a slow pace to get into the pit, by all means, signal early. I sure as hell dont want to kiss your ass.

Do you guys run the same type of tires you do in sprint races? (ie: blue / green pirelli). Or do you opt for the harder compounds?

Mostly I run (rear/front) green/green, yellow/green for daytona. This last round at roebling I ran green/green, a mistake. Shoulda ran green/yellow, not a common setup, but the track chews up the front due to lots of trail braking.

How many solo entries are there usually? I have seen past TC results and it looks like about an average of 20 per class?

look at this years results. Typically the larger events (Daytona, Barber, Road America, VIR) attract large grids, 20+. Small events attract less than 10 entries.

Since you wanna do the Solo, I'll just tell you now that there are 4 main competitors. Ivan (476), Gary (177), Paul (171), and myself (707). Anyone else that enters are either wild cards or are just practicing.

[tstruyk]

During a re-fuel, engine can stay running

made me shut mine down at Road America 05, rules may have been changed since then... not a big deal but sometimes a "hot" machine isnt too excited to get restarted.

nothing in the rules regarding mandatory shut down now... good to know.

[zeroice]

made me shut mine down at Road America 05, rules may have been changed since then... not a big deal but sometimes a "hot" machine isnt too excited to get restarted.

nothing in the rules regarding mandatory shut down now... good to know.

Yeah, I think in the past it had to be off.

It definitly doesn't have to be off this year. But sometimes if its very hot out and the bike is running hot, I'll shut it off as I am braking. Just to help the engine cool a bit. This past Roebling Road event, my bike was running at 220. Some of the cooling fins are bent and need straightening... Right now I'm running 14 caps of redline water wetter to a gallon of distilled water. Could probably use a flush and fresh fill.

Anyone know if Engine Ice is legal with CCS? I think it was legal last year.

[tstruyk]

I believe its still legal...

[zeroice]

I ran engine ice in 05 and bike definitly ran cooler than with water wetter. I think I'm gonna go back to water wetter...

[DavidV]

Last question:

How hard are solo challenges on your equipment? Can I expect failures sooner? Would you be reluctant to use a brand new bike for solo challenges?

[zeroice]

I wouldn't say a solo is necessarily harder than a sprint. Wear due to race is no doubt harder than street use. But frequent cold starts are the worst.

I think a lot of shaft seals will harden (and crack) faster if the temp is elevated and held for a long time, but thats just what I've learned testing bikes for Harley. Typically seals fail due to an accumulation of time at temp or exceeding a temp limit. Its possible that the seals, such as output shaft seal, can run at a higher temp during the solo than it would in a sprint.

But the the solo is less abusive on the clutch because you do not do so many race starts, comparing mile for mile.

Also, typically you get tired in the solo and can't push the bike to the limit. So I guess it is not running as hard as a sprint.

Maybe you also might clean your bike more often between the sprint races. So any stuff like sand might cause damage to your fork seals and chain.

I think in general though, the solo is less abusive on the motorcycle, mile for mile, compared to a sprint race.

just my .02